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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 12/12/95 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 PUBLIC HEARING DECEMBER 12, 1995 Present: James Johnson, Jr. George "Bud" Gates Johnnette Phillips Sara J. Fisher Chairman Commissioner commissioner Clerk to the Board 'This being a scheduled Public Hearing, the following items were presented to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration: Final Settlement, Adarand Constructors Jim Fritze, County Attorney, presented final settlement for Adarand Constructors, Inc., for the 1995 guardrail project stating this has been advertised and no claims made. He recommends approval. Commissioner Gates moved to approve final settlement for Adarand Constructors, Inc., as recommended by Staff. Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared unanimous. Resolution 95-147 - ZS-372-95, Colorado MOuntain Express Kathy Eastley, Planning Technician, presented file number ZS-372-95, Colorado Mountain Express. She stated this application was a request for a special use permit. Commissioner Phillips moved to approve file number ZS-372-95, Colorado Mountain Express, with conditions: Commissioner Gates seconded the motion. Commissioner Gates and Phillips voted yes and Commissioner Johnson voted no. PD-138-95-S1 - Adam's Rib Keith Montag introduced this file relatin9 the applicant is HBE corporation. He stated this is the sixth hearlng and informed everyone J?resent a site visit was conducted as well. 'The purpose of tonight's hearing lS to focus on several things. The applicant will present the project's economics. Tonight should end the applicants proposal as well as Staff's findings and public comment. It is suggested the Board table this item to December 19, 1995 at which time a decision will be presented. Mr. Montag stated the Board has seen all correspondence that has been received thus far. Mr. Montag suggested they now allow the applicant to give their presentation. Commissioner Gates asked if the decision must be made on the 19th of December or could it in fact be extended. Mr. Montag stated they have scheduled an hour on the 19th but the Board certainly may continue this further. Jim Fritze, County Attorney, stated there are a number of housekeeping measures that must be taken care of today including the scheduling on the 19th. Mr. Fritze stated the Board can continue beyond the 19th and final action of the Board is the adoption of a resolution. Mr. Fritze stated the file will be tabled to allow for that to be drafted. Mr. Fritze stated he has asked both parties to provide full record of all inclusions as exhibits to this hearing. Fred Kummer, president of HBE and Adam's Rib, pointed out a few of the things he'd like to discuss. 'The first being the AIS decision and the fact they are working together to get this completed. He indicated he will be meeting with some of the dignitaries in Washington, not in an effort to influence the decisions but to move this proj ect ahead. He spoke of Geb Hart, Scott McInnis and others. 1 Mr. Kunmer asked the Board to refer to Tab #2 and the revised schedule date and completion plan. Mr. Kunmer then referred to Tab #3 and the surrmary. He pointed out the initial authorization and the work to be done. He stated they have now spent $1,975,000,000.00. 'The third thing he pointed out is they have played by the rules and shown themselves to be honest, forthri$"ht citizens. He hopes the Board will continue its respect for continulty and property rights of all citizens. He questioned if property rights are to be denied what will the results be. Mr. Kunmer stated delays are acceptable. He asked the Board to instruct Staff to seek a resolution. He related they are submitting tonight a plan that will allow for 843 1/2 nnits with a maximum density of one unit per two acres. 'They have reached an agreement with Charlle Ridgway regarding the right-of-way to the interest of everyone. 'The last thing he mentioned was the pamphlet they distributed. He has not heard from anyone who challenges the accuracy and believes they put it together with taste. He believes the accuracy can not be challenged on the information they have provided. He believes the case they have made and will make tonight is compelling. Char lie Wick introduced Mr. Gregg Corey, Economics Associates. He reviewed his credentials. The issues to be addressed are the golf course site and what it takes to make it a vital part of a resort project and the density. Mr. Corey surrmarized the information they have develo~ed. He referred to two memos dated January 24, 1995 and March 29, 1995. H1S involvement is from a resort ski/golf consultant perspective. In 1980 they began with Adam's Rib to develop the program elements to be within the system. In 1987 they were retained by the Forest Service and the Corps to review the EIC. Last year, when the density reduction came up on the golf course, the County requested their expertise to provide information on the economics on the impact of development costs and what happens to the fabric of the community. Mr. Corey stated, originally, when Adam's Rib was planned, the economics of the ski resort was the strategy. In 1987 it became a strategy of leading with the golf course and the four seasons theme to follow. It was also critical there be a viable community to provide revenue for further development. 'There being such a core of common costs required to develop the skiing, what happens with the golf course is not an issue. Community fabric is an issue and they have looked at the development statistics of the valley. 'They reviewed the pricing scenarios. Given the core costs have to be distributed over fewer units, the price has to go up. 'The price increase will eliminate the ability of the locals or others to buy and the whole rate of absorption slows dramatically. 'The buyer themselves, under the old sketch plan, did not encourage the local market. When bringing the price points up, the number of local buyers drops. Any reduction in the unit count out will force the costs higher and make for a lessened ability for existing residents to be active in the community. Chairman Johnson asked Mr. Corey about the 1980 plan to do the ski area first and the flip flop in 1987. Mr. Corey responded development costs and building costs increased and by 1981 the change took place. Chairman Johnson asked about the real estate prices that have gone up since the mid 1980's. Mr. Corey responded they have not gone up enough. Chairman Johnson asked about there being 500 fewer units and the price points going up 30 to 40~. Mr. Corey replied the revenue that would accrue from the golf course will off set the development cost of the ski area. Chairman Johnson asked what the price point would be at 30 to 40~. Mr. Corey responded an increase of about $100,000. 'The residential, finished houslng would be in excess of $400,000. Mr. Corey stated the building lots themselves are close to 1/4 of a million dollars. Chairman Johnson asked if in that price range they would be comparitive to downtown Vail and Beaver Creek, would they be able to sell only if there is a golf course. Mr. Corey stated high end development had some real problems without the infrastructure in place. A person who has income to purchase in that range must be convinced they want to be there. Charlie Wick addressed some overview economic issues and gave an update on HBE. They are designed as a four season resort with all of their venues designed to be competi ti ve . Natural growth is taken into consideration. 'The 2 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL:S 387869 interests are larger than regional or local. He stated the population in Colorado is to double by the year 2035 to 6 million. He asked if it is fair to put the growth into areas that are now developed. He discussed golf and housing taking place down valley. He stated a resort based economy relies on a resort based development. He discussed tourism and new money into an area and the benefits for the County over the long term. He referred to a summarization made by Stan Bernstein titled Resort Economics. He read from this document. Mr. Wick discussed the changes that will occur with development but the positive results which will prevail. He referred to PTI and their movement to LaJunta. Mr. Wick discussed another benefit of having a master plan from the start. 'They have agreed to all mitigations to avoid environmental impacts. They will preserve the areas of concern and have addressed those positively. No other plan, Mr. Wick stated, can afford to make these provisions. He discussed the project buildout and the taxes to be gained. 'They are looking at 4,000 employees at build out. HBE, Hospltal Building and Equipment, is primarily involved in the buildin9 of medical facilities, credit unions, financial facilities, commerclal properties, Adam's Mark Hotels, including the new Denver Hotel which has 1230 rooms. One of the major activities of this resort is the conference center the ability to attract year round conventions. Mr. Wick handed out a package for each of the Board which tells of all the facilities they have developed. Mr. Wick stated they are more than a developer. HBE will develop but they will own and operate. 'They have a stake in the product. Failure is not an option. Success in this venture is the only economic option. 'The starting point, the golf course is their kick off and they want to do that right. A key component is a small lodge at the golf course and the ski area base. 'The economics of the condo pulls enormous amounts of income out of the economy. He discussed Vail's economy over the last nine months. Vail, like the rest of the economy, is not providing the short term bed base. Adam's Rib will provide this. ARA's short term bed base will inte9rate with the convention business to supply year round economic securlty. Mr. Wick further discussed the need for new, short term bed base. Mr. Wick concluded with the USA Weekend and the ratings of the best small towns in the County. Steamboat Springs and Glenwood were listed. Mr. Wick believes Eagle will, if they desire, maintain a community and that going from 1500 to 4,000 will still keep this a desirable community in which to live. Terrill Knight, Knight Planning, summarized the material which has been presented along the way. Section two, the physical environment which has been discussed, clearly shows the site is reasonable for the development. It was a former ranch which has been altered considerably. Related to that is the carrying capacity of the land. 'The previously discussed developments of greater density have passed the tests. The key issue before the public has been deer and elk range. 'They believe they are effecting no more than 4~. 'The row says 7~. 'They are corrmitted to reducing that as they can. An air quality and water g:uality plan are in the report. Wetlands have been identified and revlewed by the Corps. 'The effort has been made to avoid or mitigate for any impact. 'The level of impact is small. Concerning off site, a road has been designed to replace the existing Brush Creek road. 'They prefer not to have a four lane road. 'They have promised to build a bike path and to upgrade the road. Social issues as related to Gypsum and Eagle, the corrmercial facilities are proposed. Support for the hotel and neighborhood shopping will be provided if needed. 'They will provide parks, recreational trails, passive recreation sites. From what they have learned by living and working here, what Vail has done, which they have done well, they have done during development not prior to development. Convention is important to this company. Providing things like adequate parks and lands are proposed from the beginnin9. Affordable and employee housing is a part of the total project. 'ThlS first I?arcel calls for a small need of employees. 'The issue of design principals lncluded in section 5 are valid for Adam's Rib as well as for Eagle County, Colorado and beyond. 'They analyze existing materials. They will stay off of ridge lines, still maintaining larger setbacks and buffers. They are preserving view corridors, addressing transportation. 3 'They have presented a water plan showing there is adequate water in Brush Creek and historically as well. 'They are enhancing the view corridors and the riparian corridors. 'They are providing recreation and park sites as well as more open space than development. Clustering is a considered issue and they are developing accordingly. 'The no build line has been a result of planning to create nei9hborhoods. 'They have taken a comprehensive approach to look at all of the lssues together leading to the master plan which does the same thing. All the issues listed in the master plan must be balanced and considered. Mr. Knight stated the master plan takes into account the need to balance all of the issues. Mr. Kni9ht stated they have gone above the development criteria. Housing is dlverse which is important for the community and the project. 'There is plenty of land to work with. 'The economic base sUPI?Orts Adam's Rib ski area and the overall economy of the County. Open Space lS suggested by POD Re9Ulations to be 25~ minimum, they are over 50~. Transportatlon, group wise, lS on a safe and adequate road. Water Use, state has said it is certainly adequate for sketch plan. Public service will be ~rovided for development and uses. 'They have been and continue to work wlth public agencies to protect the resources. 'The oI?en space plan addresses issues important to the community including viewlng corridors, ridge line preservation, full recreational services. In closing, they feel density is important. 'The rural residential category is that which has been suggested and an appropriate level. It is not a community center. Typically, rural areas have individual wells and sewers. 'That is not the case here. All will be provided but in a rural residential facility. 'They will continue to follow the plans with the residential reduction. Fred Kunmer stated they have presented this "big" book to the Board to show their pursuit of this plan. He discussed the involvement of the EPA and the difficult time they are having with bureaucracy. Mr. Kunmer stated they created this document for Senator Ashfault to show their diligence, their thoroughness, and how frustrating this has been. He believes this provides a good outline of what has gone on and where they are today. He feels enormously encouraged by the Forest Service and the Corps of Engineers, which has happened by working with them. As he has envisioned what this valley could be if approved or not, he has not made threats. He reminded the Board and the public this will happen over a very long time. 'This will develop slowly and that is what the POD is all about. Chairman Johnson asked to take a short break after reviewing procedures for I?ublic speaking. Upon return, he reminded people that no tolerance will be glven to vicious remarks. Richard Brooks, area resident, voiced a concern with Adam's Rib remarks for their proposal. The 1982 EIS stated they have to build a base village which was allegedly demanded for a 9,000 acres of ski area. 'The FEIS sald in 1982 there was approval for up to 9,000 acres of ski area. In 1989 there was a draft EIS which looked at alternatives. 'The figures varied from 9,000 to 5,000. 'The 5,000 did not work but the 9,000 does. Eagle County is growing and we have 6,000 acres of great skiing already. In 1989 there was no decision made, no recommendation. Mr. Brooks stated Adam's Rib has hired several consultants other than those they have now. 'There does not need to be that many skiers. He doesn't know how they are justifying this. 'They will not get 9,000 skiers on 700 acres unless they discount tickets. If they do so, they won't need the village. If they have cheap tickets, the skiers will come. One of his other concerns is the review processes going on now. Adam's Rib is presenting one set of ideas federally and a whole different proposal here. He discussed the jurisdiction of the County over private land, the Federal jurisdiction over other areas. He asked the Board to table this and to work together jointly. In 1982 the impacts were not reviewed but now the new federal review process is going forward. 'The Corps does not do alternative analysis and they will make their decision only on the wetland impacts. 'The forest service is not looking at the golf course site. He addressed the cost of housing but questions what will happen as stated earlier tonight. Mike King, a resident of Eagle County for 20 years and a teacher at Eagle Valley High School, questioned if this is the ri9ht thing to do? He believes that Adam's Rib develo~ment will make it difflcult to maintain the school system, the Holy Cross Wllderness, Brush Creek, Gypsum Creek and the Colorado River Valleys. Economics does not determine all land use. 4 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 Jackie De Los Reyes, owner of Jackie's Old West, stated after four years she is still struggling to make it work. She reflected on the work that she has done in her time here. She stated this last year, the fast food restaurants have shot down the rural comrmmity look. She has now had to look toward bar trade. 'There is nothing else to do. 'The population is growing but not fast enough. Much of the population goes to the next County and so do their tax dollars. She talked about the airport and the fact they it doesn't help Eagle. She doesn't want Eagle to continue to be a bedroom community but a community where people can afford to live and work. She feels the plans for Adam's Rib are very impressive, much like Glenwood Canyon. She referred to a letter and the creation of jobs for hamburger flippers. She stated this is not true, it will create additional jobs for white collar workers. Eagle will grow no matter what anyone wants. It ei ther grows or dies. No one has the right to move to a town and close the door to others. Why not go along with Adam's Rib and make this the best four season resort around and make Eagle County and Adam's Rib known world wide. Floyd Diemoz, speaking on behalf of his parents, referred to de-ja-vu and his mother's scrap book. Twenty years have gone by. A resolution needs to be made, this can not continue. He enjoys hiking in the back county by Yoman Park. One of his favorite areas is near Negrom Basin. What bothers him is to have thousands of people in that area. He 9ives Kumner the benefit of the doubt but feels this application is just not rlght. Bob Gallegos, speaking for himself and his brother Gerald, stated they are owners of Gallegos and have 200 total employees, 150 full time. He surrmarized a letter previously sent. He was born in Gilman and grew up in Minturn. 'They support the revised Adam's Rib sketch plan and the entire proposal. The plan is a 25 year build out and has the potential to add to the year round opportunities. In addition to the original plan, the golf course subdivision can support the development. A key to minimizing ne9ati ve impacts will be the distribution of the 1,034 units. 'They have had simlar concerns over the years as those opposed to Adam's Rib. 'The concerns are similar, but they differ in many ways. 'They believe the lower valley areas are in a much better situation to deal with the changes. These communities are in a position to restrict growth. 'The residents of Minturn have worked hard at maintainin9 their small town atmosphere. Eagle and Gypsum residents have this opportunlty. 'They support HBE and ask the Board to go forward with this project. Recreation and quality of life are the future. Dick Turgeon, area resident, stated the previous speaker helped do the economic study for this project in the 1970's. He believes the Board has been led astray. Adam's Rib was there when the first master plan was done. That plan showed the PUD. The County Commissioners had given approval and he is wondering why Staff is goin9 against the Board and telling them something not true. 'Their duty is to pOlnt out the good and the bad and not make any recommendations. 'They are to tell what could or can happen. He thinks the DOW is leading them astray. Mr. Turgeon suggested the proj ect is good for the habitat. He would like to see the valley stay as it is, but its not logical. Brush Creek is going to develop and when he was on the Planning Commission he learned that a large PUD is the best way to plan any development. Jim Driver, area resident, stated he's against the proposal. His opposition is based on emotion. He does not think. that Adam's Rib is right for Brush Creek Valley. Rosie Sherwood, resident of Brush Creek, believes discussion of the golf course is impossible without discussing the entire project. The proponent has indicated the development is based on the scope of East Brush Creek. She questions the reduction applying to employee housing. She'd like to know how the reduction effects those. Affordable housing at the Bluffs is to take care of employee housing but that is out of the scope for the golf course. 'There is no mention of employee housing, along with this development and this is a huge problem. The COmmlssioners are being asked to approve a piece of the pie without the whole pie. She urged the Board not to approve any development of this magnitude until the entire scope is reviewed. Susie Kincaid, resident of Eagle, offered economic views. She reviewed the golf course not being economically viable without the ski area. 'The 5 economics of skiing, the industry, is on the decline. She suggests that snow boarders are not in the same market for buyin9 homes and playing golf. 'The concept of the rural corridor is the brain chlld of Randal Laurnet, in his book, Rural Design. Adam's Rib asked the planning consultants to consider and reconsider the rural development plan. Mr. Laurnet received copies of the plans submitted and he evaluated the project. He responded that Adam' s Rib golf course is in no way a rural development. He commented, the proposed subdivision would be out of context. Golf is not a rural use. Mr. Laurnet offered that cluster development adjacent to the town of Ea91e is the preferred scenario. She submitted a draft of the Eagle Area COmmunlty Plan which does not include Adam's Rib. She submitted a letter from a frlend who also opposes the golf course. Commissioner Gates asked Ms. Kincaid about her position and they being excluded from the Eagle Area Plan? Ms. Kincaid responded after several meetings throughout the summer to which all were encourage to attend, the plan was put together based on goals voiced by the community. 'The advisory board listened. 'The members of the community, who took the time, said they value the rural, small town characteristic of Eagle. They do not want to become a resort community and want to protect the riparian corridors. 'The most thoughtful comments reflected on what people would like to see in the next fifty years. Last night, for the very first time, Mr. Carlysle mentioned that Adam's Rib wants to cooperate in the context of the Eagle Area Community Plan. 'They did not come up with specifics, but, the advisory board and the consultants would welcome ideas from Adam's Rib to meet both the goals of the community and their personal 90als. Bob McKenzle, Brush Creek resident, thanked the Board and stated his respect for the difficulty of the task beforehand. Right now Adam's Rib has the approval to build 140 units on 600 acres. 'They have accumulated some 7000 acres in hopes to build a four season resort. To evaluate this proposal, you must look at the foundation. A resort supports the rich by definition. Housing prices don't go down. Workers can not live. People commute daily. Adam's Rib has given, to date, no specifics to the cost nor have they put down the ~antity available to employees. Nor have they committed to how they wlll support the community. Resorts in Ea91e County challenge the COmmunlty. In progress in 1995, you'll see a decllne in average income. If we approve this resort, that's what we'll get. Resorts pull ln most of their income in six months. He's heard people talk about careers for their children to stay in Eagle County. He went on to talk about the 20,000 people. He suggests there is no need to make a decision. 'They can build what they have been authorized to make a sketch plan on. 'There is an opportunity here to show the economic vitality of our community. 'The purchase of the additional land by Adam's Rib should not be taken into consideration. 'This is not a public resort. 'This is a private golf course, the parks will be available to the public, and the fishing has not yet been decided. We should have the ability for the citizens of Eagle County to enj oy what we create. In summary, Adam's Rib has acquired an enormous amount of land and they are goin9 to shape the future of the county. Jody Daniels, COmmunlty member for four years and business owner, stated he is also an outfitter and horseback rider. We need a developer to work with us but money doesn't always get everything. He supports this not be dropped because of what the nay sayers may feel but not supported only for those who will prosper. 'There must be a sense of unity. 'The idea to profit is not bad. 'The timing is right, he believes, but dragging this on will only create more confusion and frustration. He believes there are ways these issues can be worked out. Mr. Kummer has a passion and a passion for the community. Creative people can work off of wealthy people. 'That is the American way. He supports Adam's Rib from the aspect of controlling growth. We have an opportunity to create something monumental. Mike Bradley, Brush Creek resident, stated his wife's family have been residents of the valley for years and he is representing the faffilly. How do we control growth and at what point does it stop? 'There has got to be a time when enough is enough. 'This is an opportunity to stop. When this is developed, its gone. We've seen up valley what happens when a ski area moves in. Here we are at the 11th hour and HBE is offering concession. Once approved, can you ~ect concessions? He asked the Board to carefully consider this proPOsltion and to take their time. 6 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 Leila Bassett, area resident, feels privileged to live on Brush Creek and has lived there for eighteen years. She has six children and the get togethers are important. She supports Adam's Rib and that they will keep the level of hometown rural. Access has never been denied her and they have kept the valley green and clean. She is a concerned citizen like everyone else. She believes they will stand by their promises. She is also fully believin9 in this because the alternatives look devastating. 'They can still have thelr Brush Creek picnics. We must stay in fellowship and community and asks the Board approve the proposal. willis Bassett, Brush Creek resident who moved here in 1978, wishes he could bring something new, fresh, powerful, to help the Board make the right decision. But he can't, they've heard it all. It has all been discussed and if it hasn't it doesn't pertain. From all of this, they must make a decision, an important one for the citizens. He has looked at issues, looked at items and weighed them. He'd like to mention a few. Roads are one. With Adam's Rib, they will build new roads and infrastructure into the valley. Without it, the tax payers will have to do so. 'The traffic on Brush Creek is really different compared to a few years ago. As it is today, it does not handle the traffic. Water. With Adam's Rib there can be control over the quantity and quality of Brush Creek Water. He wants a stable minimum stream flow. 1994, there was just a trickle. He believes with Adam's Rib they will see better quality water. Schools. Adam's Rib has committed to donating land to the school districts. He'd rather Fred pay for it than him. Open Space and recreation. With Adam's Rib there is 70~ plus that will be open space. He feels that is an efficient use of property. He hears comments about developing the last piece of land in Eagle County. He believes that Eagle County is 80% plus public land. There will still be alot of land. After weighlng these facts, he hopes the Board will see their way clear to vote for Adam's Rib. Doug Henzler, who has a painting company and has been an up valley resident for 15 years, supports Adam's Rib for numerous reasons. 'The demand for houses and those who build them. He believes HBE has been attentive and he'd rather see this than 35 acres projects. Roy Mocher, valley resident for many years, would hate to see Brush Creek divided into 35 acres. He believes Adam's Rib development is the only choice we have. Glen Miller, a neighbor of Adam's Rib, stated he supports the plan. 'The PUD gives the County great control. He encourages the Commissioners to carefully deliberate their decision. Jim Bottomley, area resident, expressed his appreciation for the many hours they have put in on this project. He and his wife Marsha have lived here for fifteen years. His interest and love for the mountains came from livin9 and working in Switzerland. He is retired now but serves as an electlon judge and on many school boards. Listen to your Eagle County Planning Corrmission. 'They were opposed, and they represent the feelings of many of the people. Chip Bair, pro~erty owner in Eagle County, supports the development of Adam's Rib because lt provides opportunity to those of Eagle County and those to come. Dorris Johnson, an Eagle resident, stated he has been given the privilege of introducing to the record two petitions. He then referred to Calvin and Hobbs and their trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He then spoke of previous particlpants in the development. He asked if there is sympathy with the plannin9 staff? Can you sympathize with the planning commission? Let's work wlth something feasible, but with reality. 'The petitions were entered into the record. Bonita Eaton, an Eagle resident, read a letter she wrote on December 9, 1995. 'The ski area and the golf course should be submitted as one plan. Among the concerns she has is with the supply and demand for water. She talked about the amounts of water used on golf courses. Whether the water is treated or raw, it has to originate somewhere. Winter usage for snowmaking is considerable. Adam's Rib has many water rights, but do they have more priority rights than the Town of Eagle. If approved, the water usage will go far beyond what they can demand. She discussed right of way, wet lands, 7 water and wildlife. Is this proposal premature? Mr. Kummer has a dream but what is that dream. Developers don't have impossible dreams. What will 20 to 30 years bring, more dust, more build out, etc. John Ahring, resident for 23 years, says yes to Adam's Rib. Robert Arnold, stated he is an architect ln Ea91e County for over twenty years who has aided and abetted development. Plannlng and planning dollars does not mean a good proj ect . He is not impressed. Rather than beginning wi th the master ~lan and open space they have worked around it. 'The problem in Eagle County lS not employment, it is housing and this project does not provide an intelligible approach. A launching pad for development is what the developer has referred to this sketch plan as. The density proposed in no way relates to the original sketch plan as presented in 1982. 'This is 3 to 4 times as dense. 'This is a totally different PUD. He thinks the County staff and Keith Montag have done an excellent job. In closing, he just doesn't see how a project like this can be approved. Mike Metcalf, a twenty year resident of Eagle County and of Brush Creek, stated he is opposed to Adam's Rib for the reasons already stated tonight. Underlying all the reasons is the size of the golf course project and the ski area. He believes it will undermine the opportunity for good planning in the future. It comes in the middle of the overall process. He thinks its a clear case of the cart coming before the horse. He was on the greater Eagle planning committee as Ms. Kincaid was. 'The plan was established over 6 to 9 months with growth being planned from Eagle and moving out. 'Those on the steering committee did not come up with this on their own. An alternative was the ski area and leaving the land in between as open rural area. 'That alternative did not receive much support. 'The plan as it is written now, encourages clustering. 'There are opportunities but a mega resort was not what the public wanted. What they heard tonight was, Adam's Rib won't work unless it is hugh. He is not convinced there are not some middle range alternatives. Darryl Lundholm, resident since 1978 stated in 1981 he came before the County commissioners and was for Adam's Rib. OVer the years he has turned around. Mark Twain wrote, "golf is a good walk wasted" and "progress is developing 1000 useless inventions and creating a use for them". What is not needed is low wages, mass development, latch key kids, more people taxing the infrastructure, more lights, more trash for the landfill, etc. He quoted a recent Denver Post article. He referred to the number of jobs over the skilled help that exists. 'The cost of living here is 1.5 times the national average. Workers will be brought in from someplace else as will the materlals. 'The bulk of the money will leave the County. 'The jobs left will be management and service. In this County he sees a pyramid wlth infrastructure on the top and growth on the bottom. Do we do this, or do we divide it into 35 acres parcels. Why don't we leave it alone. Don't pave paradise and I?ut up a parking lot. Meadow Dldier, resident of Ea91e, stated we don't need an Adam's Rib. 'There are already too many people ln this world. The small town will be gone. Having Adam's Rib will hurt the people but also the animals and the earth and sky. 'The animals can't speak for themselves but she's speaking for them now. She thinks Adam's Rib is a bad idea. Howard Leavitt, has lived in the valley since 1974 and appreciates the diligence Mr. Kummer has put into addressin9 the important issues. Perhaps, in his opinion, in the right time and the rlght place this might be more viable. 'The economic impact and environmental impacts will be disastrous. How can we build a subdivision of $400,000 homes and address the same issues. If Adam's Rib generates another 4000 jobs how can we justify it. As an avid outdoorsman, he is concerned with the impact on the wildlife. 4 to 7~ is 4 to 7~ to many. 'There comes a time to draw the line as guality of life is to precious. He urged the Board to not approve this at thlS time. Tom Brooks, a small business man from Gypsum, speaks as a concerned citizen of Eagle County. He is 100~ for Adam's Rib and he sees the economic benefits of this. Jobs, ~rofessionals, will be attracted here. Housing, affordable available houslng will be here. Quality of life. Adam's Rib is guaranteeing protection of property values. Affluent retirees will come. wildlife benefits. Benefit number four is the spinoff. Intelligent growth with economic viability. #5 is for smart growth. It provides for protection of animals and plant llfe. HBE has looked at all sides. 'The Brush Creek valleys development is inevitable. Now it is for us to decide how. He 8 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 believes we can't afford to let this opportunity pass us by. Otherwise there will be a repeat of what has happened in the Eastern valley. 'There is a tax payer supported bus system that supports Vail. We now have a airport that supports Vail. We must say no to piecemeal development. Without the cooperation of both parties things are not pleasant. Some allude to leaving things as they are or going back in time but this is not possible. Make Adam's Rib a reality for the economic future. Jim Fritze stated he has been approached by a number of folks who would like to write a letter instead of staying on tonight. The Board asked all comments be submitted before Friday. Mr. Fritze further stated this is only an amendment sketch plan approval. There are other processes and permits that must take place before construction can begin. On the other hand, if this is denied, there is another sketch plan in place and thus does not mean the end of this project. Leonard Sinclair questioned whether or not they could restrict the written comments to those who signed up rather than the general public. Mr. Sinclair stated they are a dedicated group of people as are those who are opposed. Mr. Sinclair referred to the Denver Post article on Homestake II and the reopening of that issue. He is concerned and he does not envy the job of the Commissioners. OUr local people may have decided they don't like parts or all of it. For them to do so, would be folly. Public opinion goes along way. A few years ago there was a group of people who opposed the closing of Broadway between 5th and 6th streets. They didn't like the architecture of this buildin9 or even the furniture. He remembered the day of the dedication of this bUllding and if there is a criticism now, it is that it is too small. Public opinion runs both ways and he is strongly for it. 'The test of time is another thing. He asked the Board sincerely to approve the project and Adam's Rib will run the test of time. 'The people who are for the project are working people. Luke Danielson, Attorney for the Concerned Citizens of Eagle County, stated it is a pleasure to participate in this process and to be a citizen of this country. When his great grandfather ran for election in Basalt they settled the election with their fists. Mr. Danielson spoke to the reasons this has taken so long. First the developer has been unwilling to work with people, discuss with people, or have dialog until the last minute. Finally there are fewer units and Mr. Ridgway has changed his mind. 'They have gone ahead with their plan until the Corps finally said no in 1993. Secondly, there are some serious problems with this I?roject, it is too big. 'Third, the project keeps changing. 'The Planning Conmlssion in 1994 heard one version, this year another and now tonight another version. 'The commission is being asked to look at a different version. Where are the maps? If we ask questions, we're stalling the I?roject. He entered three exhibits, 0, P, and Q. Mr. Danielson stated exhibl t Q is a draft of what the Corps intends to put in their development study. 5058 housing units, of those 3,028 are $100,000 plus, 432 in the $400,000 plus, etc. 75% of the housing will be $289,000 or more. 'The study shows "most permanent employees will earn between $16,000 and $18,000 per year." Where are these people going to live? 'They are assuming 2.32 incomes per household. Even with that kind of income and with every employee of ARA living in a house there, there will be 849 households who cannot afford to live at ARA. 'Those people can't be absorbed. About the construction phase housing needs. It says due to the low vacancy rate there is little housing available. Employee housing must be an immediate consideration. 'This is a draft study. Charlie Wick stated the PES study took averages without looking at the low and the high. 'The household now lS in the 400 range. Fred Kummer stated it is marked draft because it is work in progress. Mr. Danielson stated if these are not the right numbers then where are the right numbers. He believes these to be credible numbers provided to them by the Corps of Engineers. 'That fits in with Bob Young's remark about the project being like the Berlin project or the Normandy Invasion. Exhibit P talks about the 35 acre limit. It isn't as simplistlC as the either or. 'There are alternatives. 'The reduction in units is an indication that the project can work just fine. 'The affordable housing issue is a critical one. 'The proposed housing units will change. If it costs more to build the 9 infrastructure, they will have to increase the prices. Tom Bourke thanked the Commissioners for their patience and their tolerance and wishes them luck with their decision. People for years have been trying to keep the next guy out. In this area, they must look at the private property ownership rights. Adam's Rib owns around 5000 acres, Eagle Ranch 1400 and more. Less than 20 to 25% are opposed to Adam's Rib. Adam's Rib are not opposed to the other property owners. 'The rights don't give Adam's Rib a fare shot. Development in lieu of Adam's Rib. . . million dollar homes, hodgepodge architectural desi9lls, no control. 'This isn't a plan for the development of Brush Creek. It lS rural. It's their own narrow view. What effects him the most is the loss of the recreational facilities. In his view, they are the most environmentally sensitive. Look at the people outside the Brush Creek valley who will enjoy the facilities. 'This isn't really a Brush Creek issue, its an Eagle County issue. All of the world will have these oPI?ortunities. He personally thinks this is a needed recreational facility. 'ThlS is a tourist area, always has been. 'The recreational facilitles are the key to growth. If Adam's Rib doesn't happen there will still be plenty of growth. Lastly, Adam's Rib does offer more compared to most other developers. 'They offer a ski area, three golf courses, open space, sewer and water. 'They're offering more than any other developer. Kurt Kunkle, area resident, stated he is opposed to Adam's Rib for reasons mentioned previously. Richard C01Tlf?ton, from the Roaring Fork Valley, stated they have their own develoI?ment lssues there. 'This has been described as a rural corridor as Las Ve9as lS a rural corridor. Property rights, how much will he have to pay to mitlgate this impact. Talking about the new jobs to be created will be another 6000 people in the $16,000 to $18,000 income. Where are they going to put the mobile homes. How about the schools for the workers. In essence the developer is demanding from others. 'The ski business is flat and eventually the golf business will go flat. He asks the Board to nip this cancer in the bud. Jim Kunkel, introduced himself as a burger flipper and a snowboarder. He does not necessarily agree that snowboarders are economically hapless but he thinks that and other things are leading to good things for the ski industry. He worked on the sub area master plan advisory committee. He agrees with some of what Susie and Mike stated earlier and it was a good effort to get the values and the desires of the people of this area. 'They enjoy the rural atmosphere, the small town friendly place that Eagle is at this time. 'There are alot of small towns but one of the things that makes Eagle uni<;rue is the great opportunities here for business and jobs. It is that comblnation of values that makes this unique. He thinks the sub area plan has a long way to go. He has suggested they start talkin9 with each other a little bit more to try to bring the two sides of this lssue together. 'There is alot to be learned from both sides. OVer the course of this project Adam's Rib has been asked to make a 9reat many commitments and they have done so. 'They have been required to provlde land for utilities, parks, public services, etc. and they should be held to each and everyone one of them. On the other hand, government should be held to its commitments. In a number of decisions made over the years they have said lets move forward. 'There are alot of problems but there are a lot of opportunities. Beverly Keifer, resident of the El Jebel trailer court, stated she believes this to be outdated and that Adam's Rib should start over. She urged Eagle County to take a strong stand on the environment. Look at the 1- 70 corridor and the ridge lines. We live here because the landscape is worth protecting. Golf courses provide the same environment as a parking lot. She believes Eagle County's first responsibility is to deal with the problems already created, not create more. Cynthia Lepthier, area resident, read a paragraph of her comments about the development of Adam's Rib. 'The j est of her talk was that development breeds development and questioned where the gravel will come from. Ennis Isom, a resident for 22 out of 23 years, stated he has finished school and come back to live here. He stated he is going to need a job and today in the Vail Daily there were four pages of jobs. He's going to need a place to live but that will continue to be the case even with Adam's Rib. 'The valley is a part of him and he is part of the valley. What makes Brush Creek special will be gone. Ken Gillman, stated he moved here in the early 60's and housing has 10 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 always been a problem, even in those days. He's not a golfer but housing is something that is needed. 'The move down valley is happenin9 for a reason because there is housing here. Every time there is a move lt opens up more housing. We need housing, but if nothing else, it offers a good alternative to housing. He was involved with the Battlement Mesa development. 'That project was POD and approved at a bigger size than is here. Nothing was set in stone and that project folded but still survived. If you'll allow this project to go forward, he is sure it will move in a direction that will benefit all. Rick Juedemann, area resident, asked the Board to take a good smell. He's in the construction field and knows many people who commute great distances to their employment. He sees there being an organized minority here who has nothing to do with their time. As far as Eagle, there is no identity. 'There's the Vail/Beaver Creek Jet Center. Ralph Parker, a construction worker who worked for Adam's Rib about five years, doesn't understand what has taken so long. He wants to live here, wants his son to grow up here. If you think Adam's Rib can keep this a cow ranch, it going be a pretty expensive cow. He watches the money pass us by. His future here depends on Adam's Rib. You don't know unless you take the step. Ron Haugland, area resident, spoke in support of the project as he believes the economic viability depends on the leisure services. In looking at this as compared to other projects, it stands up pretty well. One land owner gives the County the best opportunity to control how the land will be used. Ted Seipel, a builder, feels that Adam's Rib and the associated golf courses are a mistake. He has more to gain by the approval than many but doesn't see the development outweighing the damage. 'There are not enough people to fill the jobs now. 'There are too many low paying jobs and there is not enough affordable housing. If approved at this time it will add fuel to a runaway train. At some point we need to stop selling out the county. We need to preserve this area for our future citizens. Dana Dunbar, secretary for the Colorado Junior Golf Association and a rater of golf courses, spoke to the issues. 'There are nine courses today in this County, over 200 in the state, there are six to open this year and eleven on the drawing board. Colorado Junior Golf meets the needs of 800 plus young people. She went on to discuss the golf needs of children and then reflected on the bird house occupancy rate on golf courses in Colorado. As a private citizen in this County, she noted, the property is either tax supportive or tax generated. She stated it is naive to belleve in non growth. It is the County's way of control under the POD. 'This applicant has done everything to date that has been asked of him. Any lesser applicant would have pulled out. What we experienced in the past is memories and what we take to the future is the making of memories. She introduced photographs into the record of animals and golf courses. Francis Turgeon, a resident of Gypsum and a cabin owner in Fulford, stated she believes that working together they will get much further. She thinks everyone should be able to trust the applicant. Richard Turgeon, a resident of Gypsum, sI?oke to the future of this area and to children. 'The job opportunities are Ilmited and there are not many opportunities for the children. It is too late to say we don't want change or progress. 'This will give our children an opportunity to choose a future. Gary Gilman, moved here in 1978 as a ski bum but he stayed because of the opportunity to earn an income. He echoed Jim Kunkels sediments and his support for Adam's Rib development. Keith Montag, stated the next time slot set aside is December 19th and Adam's Rib is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. 'There is an hour that has been set aside and he would anticipate deliberation on that day. Over the past six hearings there has been alot of testimony presented. At this time it is the Board's call as to where they would like to go next. Richard Carysle, from one of the few firms that handles growth management as a field, stated housekeeping will be completed in the next day or so to make sure all is in order with the exhibits. Mr. Fritze stated rather than putting everything together tonight, 11 perhaps they can do so in the next few days. Mr. Carysle stated it starts with the notion that change is inevitable. We've seen two types of planning. Stopgap and long term. Change is painful and it is understandable that people want to keep things the way they were. StopgaI? planning does not last. 'The community plan is a lost opportunity that dld not listen to both sides. Charlie Wlck stated the tent scenarios were in the town hall. 'The process, when done, gave a 66~ in favor of the Adam's rib project. 1/3 was against. Mr. Carlysle implied the results were not reflective of the population. He referred back to the book Rule by Design and the experts who have something to offer. If you plan now, seize the opportunity to put something into effect, you will be better off than a stop gap plan. He referred to Meadows comment there are too many people in the world. 'That is true, but you've got to plan for it. Her concerns about the animals, there are ways to plan for it. When you take a large tract you can accomplish the goals. 'The way to do it is through cooperation. What they have come to are stop gap measures that are being proposed. 'IDR systems won't work. 'They need a dialogue about fair treatment. 'The buck stops here and the place for cooperation and for discussion is now. Charlie Wick stated that Adam's Rib has a 20,000 bed base but that is not people, it is beds. commissioner Phillips thanked everyone for hanging in. She questions the reduced density and asked if it is just for this application. She asked about the time schedule and the increase from 1,500 to 4,000. Charlie Wick responded the 4,000/4,300 employees in the EIS are direct, indirect, and secondary. 'The permanent population is around 7,300 range in a 25 to 30 year period. COmmlssioner Gates questioned the price of housing but was never given any figures as to how the $150,000/$200,000 rate came about. At a price increase to $400,000 he questions how that will be affordable for the people of Eagle County. He doesn't understand how and when they will address employee housing. 'They can't just shut off development and growth. 'The ap~licant must have some rights that need to be considered and addressed. Wlule he's heard only 4 - 7~ of the wildlife being effected he doesn't know what that means. He thinks Adam's Rib is trying to address the riparian habitat, but he feels he gets partial answers to questions. Terrill Knight stated somewhere between 4 and 7~ of the property on this development has any wildlife impact. 'The mitigation plan approves the wildlife habitat. Fred Kunmer addressed the concern of affordable housin9. He stated they have about 7, 000 employees in their company and your not gOlng to have the right kind of peoI?le if you can't provide the right kind of environment. In looking at the Vall complex, he feels they can do a much better job. 'The 1982 ~lan spells out clearly the desire to have a successful environment. 'That lS something they are focusing on very closely. 'They have set up ways to deal with getting the folks to deliver the product. Chairman Johnson asked about getting two sets of findings. Mr. Fritze responded they got one set but he is sure they will get another. Mr. Sinclair asked again about the written comment being accepted. Chairman Johnson stated the Board will accept written public comment up until 5:00 p.m this Friday. Mr. Wick questioned the $400,000 price on units which Mr. Gates spoke of. Mr. Wick said the $150,000 range will be for rental. 'The lower end may go up from $175,000/$200,000 but they will have to look at that. Dick Carysle stated in the Resolution there is a clause that deals with the conditions of approval. 'There will be further dialogue. Mr. Fritze asked Mr. Wick if the draft report submitted to the Board dated 1/25/95 has a mix of housing which are identified by location. He asked if this is one of the things that was corrected or lS it correct as it is. Mr. Fritze read the figures. Charlie Wick explained those figures are erroneous as read. Mr. Wick stated this is sketch plan and what he is looking at is PES having put gross numbers and averages. Mr. Danielson reminded the Board the document states it is from information provided by the applicant. Mr. Fritze stated Exhibits 0, P and Q are being submitted but will be numbered accordingly. 12 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 commissioner Gates moved to accept Exhibits 0, P & Q into the record. Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared unanimous. Mr. Kummer stated their housing spectrum is from the lowest cost units in Mill Park to the larger units on the golf course. Chairman Johnson asked if there is a spectrum. Mr. Kummer stated the range is from $99,000 on up. Chairman Johnson thanked Staff and the applicant but most of all the people who have been involved tonight and all other nights. Mr. Carlysle and Mr. Fritze will submit a list of all exhibits to the Board and the Board will deliberate. Mr. Danielson asked they receive a copy of the list. Commissioner Phillips moved to close this hearing to public comment but allow letters and exhibits until 5:00 p.m on December 15, 1995. Corrmissioner Gates seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared unanimous. Chairman Johnson stated he anticipates a decision to be made by next Tuesday. 'There being no further business to come before this Board the meeting was adjourned until December 18, 1995. Attest: ,drt Q ~~ Ce 0 e oaCi -d~~~~ 13