HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 12/12/95
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
PUBLIC HEARING
DECEMBER 12, 1995
Present: James Johnson, Jr.
George "Bud" Gates
Johnnette Phillips
Sara J. Fisher
Chairman
Commissioner
commissioner
Clerk to the Board
'This being a scheduled Public Hearing, the following items were
presented to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration:
Final Settlement, Adarand Constructors
Jim Fritze, County Attorney, presented final settlement for Adarand
Constructors, Inc., for the 1995 guardrail project stating this has been
advertised and no claims made. He recommends approval.
Commissioner Gates moved to approve final settlement for Adarand
Constructors, Inc., as recommended by Staff.
Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared
unanimous.
Resolution 95-147 - ZS-372-95, Colorado MOuntain Express
Kathy Eastley, Planning Technician, presented file number ZS-372-95,
Colorado Mountain Express. She stated this application was a request for a
special use permit.
Commissioner Phillips moved to approve file number ZS-372-95, Colorado
Mountain Express, with conditions:
Commissioner Gates seconded the motion. Commissioner Gates and Phillips
voted yes and Commissioner Johnson voted no.
PD-138-95-S1 - Adam's Rib
Keith Montag introduced this file relatin9 the applicant is HBE
corporation. He stated this is the sixth hearlng and informed everyone
J?resent a site visit was conducted as well. 'The purpose of tonight's hearing
lS to focus on several things. The applicant will present the project's
economics. Tonight should end the applicants proposal as well as Staff's
findings and public comment. It is suggested the Board table this item to
December 19, 1995 at which time a decision will be presented.
Mr. Montag stated the Board has seen all correspondence that has been
received thus far. Mr. Montag suggested they now allow the applicant to give
their presentation.
Commissioner Gates asked if the decision must be made on the 19th of
December or could it in fact be extended.
Mr. Montag stated they have scheduled an hour on the 19th but the Board
certainly may continue this further.
Jim Fritze, County Attorney, stated there are a number of housekeeping
measures that must be taken care of today including the scheduling on the
19th. Mr. Fritze stated the Board can continue beyond the 19th and final
action of the Board is the adoption of a resolution. Mr. Fritze stated the
file will be tabled to allow for that to be drafted.
Mr. Fritze stated he has asked both parties to provide full record of
all inclusions as exhibits to this hearing.
Fred Kummer, president of HBE and Adam's Rib, pointed out a few of the
things he'd like to discuss. 'The first being the AIS decision and the fact
they are working together to get this completed. He indicated he will be
meeting with some of the dignitaries in Washington, not in an effort to
influence the decisions but to move this proj ect ahead. He spoke of Geb
Hart, Scott McInnis and others.
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Mr. Kunmer asked the Board to refer to Tab #2 and the revised schedule
date and completion plan. Mr. Kunmer then referred to Tab #3 and the
surrmary. He pointed out the initial authorization and the work to be done.
He stated they have now spent $1,975,000,000.00. 'The third thing he pointed
out is they have played by the rules and shown themselves to be honest,
forthri$"ht citizens. He hopes the Board will continue its respect for
continulty and property rights of all citizens. He questioned if property
rights are to be denied what will the results be. Mr. Kunmer stated delays
are acceptable. He asked the Board to instruct Staff to seek a resolution.
He related they are submitting tonight a plan that will allow for 843
1/2 nnits with a maximum density of one unit per two acres. 'They have
reached an agreement with Charlle Ridgway regarding the right-of-way to the
interest of everyone. 'The last thing he mentioned was the pamphlet they
distributed. He has not heard from anyone who challenges the accuracy and
believes they put it together with taste. He believes the accuracy can not
be challenged on the information they have provided. He believes the case
they have made and will make tonight is compelling.
Char lie Wick introduced Mr. Gregg Corey, Economics Associates. He
reviewed his credentials. The issues to be addressed are the golf course
site and what it takes to make it a vital part of a resort project and the
density.
Mr. Corey surrmarized the information they have develo~ed. He referred
to two memos dated January 24, 1995 and March 29, 1995. H1S involvement is
from a resort ski/golf consultant perspective. In 1980 they began with
Adam's Rib to develop the program elements to be within the system. In 1987
they were retained by the Forest Service and the Corps to review the EIC.
Last year, when the density reduction came up on the golf course, the County
requested their expertise to provide information on the economics on the
impact of development costs and what happens to the fabric of the community.
Mr. Corey stated, originally, when Adam's Rib was planned, the economics of
the ski resort was the strategy. In 1987 it became a strategy of leading
with the golf course and the four seasons theme to follow. It was also
critical there be a viable community to provide revenue for further
development. 'There being such a core of common costs required to develop the
skiing, what happens with the golf course is not an issue. Community fabric
is an issue and they have looked at the development statistics of the valley.
'They reviewed the pricing scenarios. Given the core costs have to be
distributed over fewer units, the price has to go up. 'The price increase
will eliminate the ability of the locals or others to buy and the whole rate
of absorption slows dramatically. 'The buyer themselves, under the old sketch
plan, did not encourage the local market. When bringing the price points up,
the number of local buyers drops. Any reduction in the unit count out will
force the costs higher and make for a lessened ability for existing residents
to be active in the community.
Chairman Johnson asked Mr. Corey about the 1980 plan to do the ski area
first and the flip flop in 1987. Mr. Corey responded development costs and
building costs increased and by 1981 the change took place.
Chairman Johnson asked about the real estate prices that have gone up
since the mid 1980's.
Mr. Corey responded they have not gone up enough.
Chairman Johnson asked about there being 500 fewer units and the price
points going up 30 to 40~.
Mr. Corey replied the revenue that would accrue from the golf course
will off set the development cost of the ski area.
Chairman Johnson asked what the price point would be at 30 to 40~.
Mr. Corey responded an increase of about $100,000. 'The residential,
finished houslng would be in excess of $400,000. Mr. Corey stated the
building lots themselves are close to 1/4 of a million dollars.
Chairman Johnson asked if in that price range they would be comparitive
to downtown Vail and Beaver Creek, would they be able to sell only if there
is a golf course.
Mr. Corey stated high end development had some real problems without the
infrastructure in place. A person who has income to purchase in that range
must be convinced they want to be there.
Charlie Wick addressed some overview economic issues and gave an update
on HBE. They are designed as a four season resort with all of their venues
designed to be competi ti ve . Natural growth is taken into consideration. 'The
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL:S 387869
interests are larger than regional or local. He stated the population in
Colorado is to double by the year 2035 to 6 million. He asked if it is fair
to put the growth into areas that are now developed. He discussed golf and
housing taking place down valley. He stated a resort based economy relies on
a resort based development. He discussed tourism and new money into an area
and the benefits for the County over the long term. He referred to a
summarization made by Stan Bernstein titled Resort Economics. He read from
this document. Mr. Wick discussed the changes that will occur with
development but the positive results which will prevail. He referred to PTI
and their movement to LaJunta.
Mr. Wick discussed another benefit of having a master plan from the
start. 'They have agreed to all mitigations to avoid environmental impacts.
They will preserve the areas of concern and have addressed those positively.
No other plan, Mr. Wick stated, can afford to make these provisions. He
discussed the project buildout and the taxes to be gained. 'They are looking
at 4,000 employees at build out.
HBE, Hospltal Building and Equipment, is primarily involved in the
buildin9 of medical facilities, credit unions, financial facilities,
commerclal properties, Adam's Mark Hotels, including the new Denver Hotel
which has 1230 rooms. One of the major activities of this resort is the
conference center the ability to attract year round conventions. Mr. Wick
handed out a package for each of the Board which tells of all the facilities
they have developed. Mr. Wick stated they are more than a developer. HBE
will develop but they will own and operate. 'They have a stake in the
product. Failure is not an option. Success in this venture is the only
economic option. 'The starting point, the golf course is their kick off and
they want to do that right. A key component is a small lodge at the golf
course and the ski area base. 'The economics of the condo pulls enormous
amounts of income out of the economy.
He discussed Vail's economy over the last nine months. Vail, like the
rest of the economy, is not providing the short term bed base. Adam's Rib
will provide this. ARA's short term bed base will inte9rate with the
convention business to supply year round economic securlty. Mr. Wick further
discussed the need for new, short term bed base. Mr. Wick concluded with the
USA Weekend and the ratings of the best small towns in the County. Steamboat
Springs and Glenwood were listed. Mr. Wick believes Eagle will, if they
desire, maintain a community and that going from 1500 to 4,000 will still
keep this a desirable community in which to live.
Terrill Knight, Knight Planning, summarized the material which has been
presented along the way. Section two, the physical environment which has
been discussed, clearly shows the site is reasonable for the development. It
was a former ranch which has been altered considerably. Related to that is
the carrying capacity of the land. 'The previously discussed developments of
greater density have passed the tests. The key issue before the public has
been deer and elk range. 'They believe they are effecting no more than 4~.
'The row says 7~. 'They are corrmitted to reducing that as they can. An air
quality and water g:uality plan are in the report. Wetlands have been
identified and revlewed by the Corps. 'The effort has been made to avoid or
mitigate for any impact. 'The level of impact is small. Concerning off site,
a road has been designed to replace the existing Brush Creek road. 'They
prefer not to have a four lane road. 'They have promised to build a bike path
and to upgrade the road. Social issues as related to Gypsum and Eagle, the
corrmercial facilities are proposed. Support for the hotel and neighborhood
shopping will be provided if needed. 'They will provide parks, recreational
trails, passive recreation sites. From what they have learned by living and
working here, what Vail has done, which they have done well, they have done
during development not prior to development. Convention is important to this
company. Providing things like adequate parks and lands are proposed from
the beginnin9. Affordable and employee housing is a part of the total
project. 'ThlS first I?arcel calls for a small need of employees. 'The issue
of design principals lncluded in section 5 are valid for Adam's Rib as well
as for Eagle County, Colorado and beyond. 'They analyze existing materials.
They will stay off of ridge lines, still maintaining larger setbacks and
buffers. They are preserving view corridors, addressing transportation.
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'They have presented a water plan showing there is adequate water in Brush
Creek and historically as well. 'They are enhancing the view corridors and
the riparian corridors. 'They are providing recreation and park sites as well
as more open space than development. Clustering is a considered issue and
they are developing accordingly. 'The no build line has been a result of
planning to create nei9hborhoods. 'They have taken a comprehensive approach
to look at all of the lssues together leading to the master plan which does
the same thing. All the issues listed in the master plan must be balanced
and considered. Mr. Knight stated the master plan takes into account the
need to balance all of the issues.
Mr. Kni9ht stated they have gone above the development criteria.
Housing is dlverse which is important for the community and the project.
'There is plenty of land to work with. 'The economic base sUPI?Orts Adam's Rib
ski area and the overall economy of the County. Open Space lS suggested by
POD Re9Ulations to be 25~ minimum, they are over 50~. Transportatlon, group
wise, lS on a safe and adequate road. Water Use, state has said it is
certainly adequate for sketch plan. Public service will be ~rovided for
development and uses. 'They have been and continue to work wlth public
agencies to protect the resources. 'The oI?en space plan addresses issues
important to the community including viewlng corridors, ridge line
preservation, full recreational services. In closing, they feel density is
important. 'The rural residential category is that which has been suggested
and an appropriate level. It is not a community center. Typically, rural
areas have individual wells and sewers. 'That is not the case here. All will
be provided but in a rural residential facility. 'They will continue to
follow the plans with the residential reduction.
Fred Kunmer stated they have presented this "big" book to the Board to
show their pursuit of this plan. He discussed the involvement of the EPA and
the difficult time they are having with bureaucracy. Mr. Kunmer stated they
created this document for Senator Ashfault to show their diligence, their
thoroughness, and how frustrating this has been. He believes this provides a
good outline of what has gone on and where they are today. He feels
enormously encouraged by the Forest Service and the Corps of Engineers, which
has happened by working with them. As he has envisioned what this valley
could be if approved or not, he has not made threats. He reminded the Board
and the public this will happen over a very long time. 'This will develop
slowly and that is what the POD is all about.
Chairman Johnson asked to take a short break after reviewing procedures
for I?ublic speaking. Upon return, he reminded people that no tolerance will
be glven to vicious remarks.
Richard Brooks, area resident, voiced a concern with Adam's Rib remarks
for their proposal. The 1982 EIS stated they have to build a base village
which was allegedly demanded for a 9,000 acres of ski area. 'The FEIS sald in
1982 there was approval for up to 9,000 acres of ski area. In 1989 there was
a draft EIS which looked at alternatives. 'The figures varied from 9,000 to
5,000. 'The 5,000 did not work but the 9,000 does. Eagle County is growing
and we have 6,000 acres of great skiing already. In 1989 there was no
decision made, no recommendation. Mr. Brooks stated Adam's Rib has hired
several consultants other than those they have now. 'There does not need to
be that many skiers. He doesn't know how they are justifying this. 'They
will not get 9,000 skiers on 700 acres unless they discount tickets. If they
do so, they won't need the village. If they have cheap tickets, the skiers
will come. One of his other concerns is the review processes going on now.
Adam's Rib is presenting one set of ideas federally and a whole different
proposal here. He discussed the jurisdiction of the County over private
land, the Federal jurisdiction over other areas. He asked the Board to table
this and to work together jointly. In 1982 the impacts were not reviewed but
now the new federal review process is going forward. 'The Corps does not do
alternative analysis and they will make their decision only on the wetland
impacts. 'The forest service is not looking at the golf course site. He
addressed the cost of housing but questions what will happen as stated
earlier tonight.
Mike King, a resident of Eagle County for 20 years and a teacher at
Eagle Valley High School, questioned if this is the ri9ht thing to do? He
believes that Adam's Rib develo~ment will make it difflcult to maintain the
school system, the Holy Cross Wllderness, Brush Creek, Gypsum Creek and the
Colorado River Valleys. Economics does not determine all land use.
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
Jackie De Los Reyes, owner of Jackie's Old West, stated after four years
she is still struggling to make it work. She reflected on the work that she
has done in her time here. She stated this last year, the fast food
restaurants have shot down the rural comrmmity look. She has now had to look
toward bar trade. 'There is nothing else to do. 'The population is growing
but not fast enough. Much of the population goes to the next County and so
do their tax dollars. She talked about the airport and the fact they it
doesn't help Eagle. She doesn't want Eagle to continue to be a bedroom
community but a community where people can afford to live and work. She
feels the plans for Adam's Rib are very impressive, much like Glenwood
Canyon. She referred to a letter and the creation of jobs for hamburger
flippers. She stated this is not true, it will create additional jobs for
white collar workers. Eagle will grow no matter what anyone wants. It
ei ther grows or dies. No one has the right to move to a town and close the
door to others. Why not go along with Adam's Rib and make this the best four
season resort around and make Eagle County and Adam's Rib known world wide.
Floyd Diemoz, speaking on behalf of his parents, referred to de-ja-vu
and his mother's scrap book. Twenty years have gone by. A resolution needs
to be made, this can not continue. He enjoys hiking in the back county by
Yoman Park. One of his favorite areas is near Negrom Basin. What bothers
him is to have thousands of people in that area. He 9ives Kumner the benefit
of the doubt but feels this application is just not rlght.
Bob Gallegos, speaking for himself and his brother Gerald, stated they
are owners of Gallegos and have 200 total employees, 150 full time. He
surrmarized a letter previously sent. He was born in Gilman and grew up in
Minturn. 'They support the revised Adam's Rib sketch plan and the entire
proposal. The plan is a 25 year build out and has the potential to add to
the year round opportunities. In addition to the original plan, the golf
course subdivision can support the development. A key to minimizing ne9ati ve
impacts will be the distribution of the 1,034 units. 'They have had simlar
concerns over the years as those opposed to Adam's Rib. 'The concerns are
similar, but they differ in many ways. 'They believe the lower valley areas
are in a much better situation to deal with the changes. These communities
are in a position to restrict growth. 'The residents of Minturn have worked
hard at maintainin9 their small town atmosphere. Eagle and Gypsum residents
have this opportunlty. 'They support HBE and ask the Board to go forward with
this project. Recreation and quality of life are the future.
Dick Turgeon, area resident, stated the previous speaker helped do the
economic study for this project in the 1970's. He believes the Board has
been led astray. Adam's Rib was there when the first master plan was done.
That plan showed the PUD. The County Commissioners had given approval and he
is wondering why Staff is goin9 against the Board and telling them something
not true. 'Their duty is to pOlnt out the good and the bad and not make any
recommendations. 'They are to tell what could or can happen. He thinks the
DOW is leading them astray. Mr. Turgeon suggested the proj ect is good for
the habitat. He would like to see the valley stay as it is, but its not
logical. Brush Creek is going to develop and when he was on the Planning
Commission he learned that a large PUD is the best way to plan any
development.
Jim Driver, area resident, stated he's against the proposal. His
opposition is based on emotion. He does not think. that Adam's Rib is right
for Brush Creek Valley.
Rosie Sherwood, resident of Brush Creek, believes discussion of the golf
course is impossible without discussing the entire project. The proponent
has indicated the development is based on the scope of East Brush Creek. She
questions the reduction applying to employee housing. She'd like to know how
the reduction effects those. Affordable housing at the Bluffs is to take
care of employee housing but that is out of the scope for the golf course.
'There is no mention of employee housing, along with this development and this
is a huge problem. The COmmlssioners are being asked to approve a piece of
the pie without the whole pie. She urged the Board not to approve any
development of this magnitude until the entire scope is reviewed.
Susie Kincaid, resident of Eagle, offered economic views. She reviewed
the golf course not being economically viable without the ski area. 'The
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economics of skiing, the industry, is on the decline. She suggests that
snow boarders are not in the same market for buyin9 homes and playing golf.
'The concept of the rural corridor is the brain chlld of Randal Laurnet, in
his book, Rural Design. Adam's Rib asked the planning consultants to
consider and reconsider the rural development plan. Mr. Laurnet received
copies of the plans submitted and he evaluated the project. He responded
that Adam' s Rib golf course is in no way a rural development. He commented,
the proposed subdivision would be out of context. Golf is not a rural use.
Mr. Laurnet offered that cluster development adjacent to the town of Ea91e is
the preferred scenario. She submitted a draft of the Eagle Area COmmunlty
Plan which does not include Adam's Rib. She submitted a letter from a frlend
who also opposes the golf course.
Commissioner Gates asked Ms. Kincaid about her position and they being
excluded from the Eagle Area Plan?
Ms. Kincaid responded after several meetings throughout the summer to
which all were encourage to attend, the plan was put together based on goals
voiced by the community. 'The advisory board listened. 'The members of the
community, who took the time, said they value the rural, small town
characteristic of Eagle. They do not want to become a resort community and
want to protect the riparian corridors. 'The most thoughtful comments
reflected on what people would like to see in the next fifty years. Last
night, for the very first time, Mr. Carlysle mentioned that Adam's Rib wants
to cooperate in the context of the Eagle Area Community Plan. 'They did not
come up with specifics, but, the advisory board and the consultants would
welcome ideas from Adam's Rib to meet both the goals of the community and
their personal 90als.
Bob McKenzle, Brush Creek resident, thanked the Board and stated his
respect for the difficulty of the task beforehand. Right now Adam's Rib has
the approval to build 140 units on 600 acres. 'They have accumulated some
7000 acres in hopes to build a four season resort. To evaluate this
proposal, you must look at the foundation. A resort supports the rich by
definition. Housing prices don't go down. Workers can not live. People
commute daily. Adam's Rib has given, to date, no specifics to the cost nor
have they put down the ~antity available to employees. Nor have they
committed to how they wlll support the community. Resorts in Ea91e County
challenge the COmmunlty. In progress in 1995, you'll see a decllne in
average income. If we approve this resort, that's what we'll get. Resorts
pull ln most of their income in six months. He's heard people talk about
careers for their children to stay in Eagle County. He went on to talk about
the 20,000 people. He suggests there is no need to make a decision. 'They
can build what they have been authorized to make a sketch plan on. 'There is
an opportunity here to show the economic vitality of our community. 'The
purchase of the additional land by Adam's Rib should not be taken into
consideration. 'This is not a public resort. 'This is a private golf course,
the parks will be available to the public, and the fishing has not yet been
decided. We should have the ability for the citizens of Eagle County to
enj oy what we create. In summary, Adam's Rib has acquired an enormous amount
of land and they are goin9 to shape the future of the county.
Jody Daniels, COmmunlty member for four years and business owner, stated
he is also an outfitter and horseback rider. We need a developer to work
with us but money doesn't always get everything. He supports this not be
dropped because of what the nay sayers may feel but not supported only for
those who will prosper. 'There must be a sense of unity. 'The idea to profit
is not bad. 'The timing is right, he believes, but dragging this on will only
create more confusion and frustration. He believes there are ways these
issues can be worked out. Mr. Kummer has a passion and a passion for the
community. Creative people can work off of wealthy people. 'That is the
American way. He supports Adam's Rib from the aspect of controlling growth.
We have an opportunity to create something monumental.
Mike Bradley, Brush Creek resident, stated his wife's family have been
residents of the valley for years and he is representing the faffilly. How do
we control growth and at what point does it stop? 'There has got to be a time
when enough is enough. 'This is an opportunity to stop. When this is
developed, its gone. We've seen up valley what happens when a ski area moves
in. Here we are at the 11th hour and HBE is offering concession. Once
approved, can you ~ect concessions? He asked the Board to carefully
consider this proPOsltion and to take their time.
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
Leila Bassett, area resident, feels privileged to live on Brush Creek
and has lived there for eighteen years. She has six children and the get
togethers are important. She supports Adam's Rib and that they will keep the
level of hometown rural. Access has never been denied her and they have kept
the valley green and clean. She is a concerned citizen like everyone else.
She believes they will stand by their promises. She is also fully believin9
in this because the alternatives look devastating. 'They can still have thelr
Brush Creek picnics. We must stay in fellowship and community and asks the
Board approve the proposal.
willis Bassett, Brush Creek resident who moved here in 1978, wishes he
could bring something new, fresh, powerful, to help the Board make the right
decision. But he can't, they've heard it all. It has all been discussed and
if it hasn't it doesn't pertain. From all of this, they must make a
decision, an important one for the citizens. He has looked at issues, looked
at items and weighed them. He'd like to mention a few. Roads are one. With
Adam's Rib, they will build new roads and infrastructure into the valley.
Without it, the tax payers will have to do so. 'The traffic on Brush Creek is
really different compared to a few years ago. As it is today, it does not
handle the traffic. Water. With Adam's Rib there can be control over the
quantity and quality of Brush Creek Water. He wants a stable minimum stream
flow. 1994, there was just a trickle. He believes with Adam's Rib they will
see better quality water. Schools. Adam's Rib has committed to donating
land to the school districts. He'd rather Fred pay for it than him. Open
Space and recreation. With Adam's Rib there is 70~ plus that will be open
space. He feels that is an efficient use of property. He hears comments
about developing the last piece of land in Eagle County. He believes that
Eagle County is 80% plus public land. There will still be alot of land.
After weighlng these facts, he hopes the Board will see their way clear to
vote for Adam's Rib.
Doug Henzler, who has a painting company and has been an up valley
resident for 15 years, supports Adam's Rib for numerous reasons. 'The demand
for houses and those who build them. He believes HBE has been attentive and
he'd rather see this than 35 acres projects.
Roy Mocher, valley resident for many years, would hate to see Brush
Creek divided into 35 acres. He believes Adam's Rib development is the only
choice we have.
Glen Miller, a neighbor of Adam's Rib, stated he supports the plan. 'The
PUD gives the County great control. He encourages the Commissioners to
carefully deliberate their decision.
Jim Bottomley, area resident, expressed his appreciation for the many
hours they have put in on this project. He and his wife Marsha have lived
here for fifteen years. His interest and love for the mountains came from
livin9 and working in Switzerland. He is retired now but serves as an
electlon judge and on many school boards. Listen to your Eagle County
Planning Corrmission. 'They were opposed, and they represent the feelings of
many of the people.
Chip Bair, pro~erty owner in Eagle County, supports the development of
Adam's Rib because lt provides opportunity to those of Eagle County and those
to come.
Dorris Johnson, an Eagle resident, stated he has been given the
privilege of introducing to the record two petitions. He then referred to
Calvin and Hobbs and their trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. He
then spoke of previous particlpants in the development. He asked if there is
sympathy with the plannin9 staff? Can you sympathize with the planning
commission? Let's work wlth something feasible, but with reality. 'The
petitions were entered into the record.
Bonita Eaton, an Eagle resident, read a letter she wrote on December 9,
1995. 'The ski area and the golf course should be submitted as one plan.
Among the concerns she has is with the supply and demand for water. She
talked about the amounts of water used on golf courses. Whether the water is
treated or raw, it has to originate somewhere. Winter usage for snowmaking
is considerable. Adam's Rib has many water rights, but do they have more
priority rights than the Town of Eagle. If approved, the water usage will go
far beyond what they can demand. She discussed right of way, wet lands,
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water and wildlife. Is this proposal premature? Mr. Kummer has a dream but
what is that dream. Developers don't have impossible dreams. What will 20
to 30 years bring, more dust, more build out, etc.
John Ahring, resident for 23 years, says yes to Adam's Rib.
Robert Arnold, stated he is an architect ln Ea91e County for over twenty
years who has aided and abetted development. Plannlng and planning dollars
does not mean a good proj ect . He is not impressed. Rather than beginning
wi th the master ~lan and open space they have worked around it. 'The problem
in Eagle County lS not employment, it is housing and this project does not
provide an intelligible approach. A launching pad for development is what
the developer has referred to this sketch plan as. The density proposed in
no way relates to the original sketch plan as presented in 1982. 'This is 3
to 4 times as dense. 'This is a totally different PUD. He thinks the County
staff and Keith Montag have done an excellent job. In closing, he just
doesn't see how a project like this can be approved.
Mike Metcalf, a twenty year resident of Eagle County and of Brush Creek,
stated he is opposed to Adam's Rib for the reasons already stated tonight.
Underlying all the reasons is the size of the golf course project and the ski
area. He believes it will undermine the opportunity for good planning in the
future. It comes in the middle of the overall process. He thinks its a
clear case of the cart coming before the horse. He was on the greater Eagle
planning committee as Ms. Kincaid was. 'The plan was established over 6 to 9
months with growth being planned from Eagle and moving out. 'Those on the
steering committee did not come up with this on their own. An alternative
was the ski area and leaving the land in between as open rural area. 'That
alternative did not receive much support. 'The plan as it is written now,
encourages clustering. 'There are opportunities but a mega resort was not
what the public wanted. What they heard tonight was, Adam's Rib won't work
unless it is hugh. He is not convinced there are not some middle range
alternatives.
Darryl Lundholm, resident since 1978 stated in 1981 he came before the
County commissioners and was for Adam's Rib. OVer the years he has turned
around. Mark Twain wrote, "golf is a good walk wasted" and "progress is
developing 1000 useless inventions and creating a use for them". What is not
needed is low wages, mass development, latch key kids, more people taxing the
infrastructure, more lights, more trash for the landfill, etc. He quoted a
recent Denver Post article. He referred to the number of jobs over the
skilled help that exists. 'The cost of living here is 1.5 times the national
average. Workers will be brought in from someplace else as will the
materlals. 'The bulk of the money will leave the County. 'The jobs left will
be management and service. In this County he sees a pyramid wlth
infrastructure on the top and growth on the bottom. Do we do this, or do we
divide it into 35 acres parcels. Why don't we leave it alone. Don't pave
paradise and I?ut up a parking lot.
Meadow Dldier, resident of Ea91e, stated we don't need an Adam's Rib.
'There are already too many people ln this world. The small town will be
gone. Having Adam's Rib will hurt the people but also the animals and the
earth and sky. 'The animals can't speak for themselves but she's speaking for
them now. She thinks Adam's Rib is a bad idea.
Howard Leavitt, has lived in the valley since 1974 and appreciates the
diligence Mr. Kummer has put into addressin9 the important issues. Perhaps,
in his opinion, in the right time and the rlght place this might be more
viable. 'The economic impact and environmental impacts will be disastrous.
How can we build a subdivision of $400,000 homes and address the same issues.
If Adam's Rib generates another 4000 jobs how can we justify it. As an avid
outdoorsman, he is concerned with the impact on the wildlife. 4 to 7~ is 4
to 7~ to many. 'There comes a time to draw the line as guality of life is to
precious. He urged the Board to not approve this at thlS time.
Tom Brooks, a small business man from Gypsum, speaks as a concerned
citizen of Eagle County. He is 100~ for Adam's Rib and he sees the economic
benefits of this. Jobs, ~rofessionals, will be attracted here. Housing,
affordable available houslng will be here. Quality of life. Adam's Rib is
guaranteeing protection of property values. Affluent retirees will come.
wildlife benefits. Benefit number four is the spinoff. Intelligent growth
with economic viability. #5 is for smart growth. It provides for protection
of animals and plant llfe. HBE has looked at all sides. 'The Brush Creek
valleys development is inevitable. Now it is for us to decide how. He
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
believes we can't afford to let this opportunity pass us by. Otherwise there
will be a repeat of what has happened in the Eastern valley. 'There is a tax
payer supported bus system that supports Vail. We now have a airport that
supports Vail. We must say no to piecemeal development. Without the
cooperation of both parties things are not pleasant. Some allude to leaving
things as they are or going back in time but this is not possible. Make
Adam's Rib a reality for the economic future.
Jim Fritze stated he has been approached by a number of folks who would
like to write a letter instead of staying on tonight.
The Board asked all comments be submitted before Friday.
Mr. Fritze further stated this is only an amendment sketch plan
approval. There are other processes and permits that must take place before
construction can begin. On the other hand, if this is denied, there is
another sketch plan in place and thus does not mean the end of this project.
Leonard Sinclair questioned whether or not they could restrict the
written comments to those who signed up rather than the general public. Mr.
Sinclair stated they are a dedicated group of people as are those who are
opposed. Mr. Sinclair referred to the Denver Post article on Homestake II
and the reopening of that issue. He is concerned and he does not envy the
job of the Commissioners. OUr local people may have decided they don't like
parts or all of it. For them to do so, would be folly. Public opinion goes
along way. A few years ago there was a group of people who opposed the
closing of Broadway between 5th and 6th streets. They didn't like the
architecture of this buildin9 or even the furniture. He remembered the day
of the dedication of this bUllding and if there is a criticism now, it is
that it is too small. Public opinion runs both ways and he is strongly for
it. 'The test of time is another thing. He asked the Board sincerely to
approve the project and Adam's Rib will run the test of time. 'The people who
are for the project are working people.
Luke Danielson, Attorney for the Concerned Citizens of Eagle County,
stated it is a pleasure to participate in this process and to be a citizen of
this country. When his great grandfather ran for election in Basalt they
settled the election with their fists. Mr. Danielson spoke to the reasons
this has taken so long. First the developer has been unwilling to work with
people, discuss with people, or have dialog until the last minute. Finally
there are fewer units and Mr. Ridgway has changed his mind. 'They have gone
ahead with their plan until the Corps finally said no in 1993. Secondly,
there are some serious problems with this I?roject, it is too big. 'Third, the
project keeps changing. 'The Planning Conmlssion in 1994 heard one version,
this year another and now tonight another version. 'The commission is being
asked to look at a different version. Where are the maps? If we ask
questions, we're stalling the I?roject. He entered three exhibits, 0, P, and
Q. Mr. Danielson stated exhibl t Q is a draft of what the Corps intends to
put in their development study. 5058 housing units, of those 3,028 are
$100,000 plus, 432 in the $400,000 plus, etc. 75% of the housing will be
$289,000 or more. 'The study shows "most permanent employees will earn
between $16,000 and $18,000 per year." Where are these people going to live?
'They are assuming 2.32 incomes per household. Even with that kind of income
and with every employee of ARA living in a house there, there will be 849
households who cannot afford to live at ARA. 'Those people can't be absorbed.
About the construction phase housing needs. It says due to the low vacancy
rate there is little housing available. Employee housing must be an
immediate consideration. 'This is a draft study. Charlie Wick stated the PES
study took averages without looking at the low and the high. 'The household
now lS in the 400 range.
Fred Kummer stated it is marked draft because it is work in progress.
Mr. Danielson stated if these are not the right numbers then where are
the right numbers. He believes these to be credible numbers provided to them
by the Corps of Engineers. 'That fits in with Bob Young's remark about the
project being like the Berlin project or the Normandy Invasion. Exhibit P
talks about the 35 acre limit. It isn't as simplistlC as the either or.
'There are alternatives. 'The reduction in units is an indication that the
project can work just fine. 'The affordable housing issue is a critical one.
'The proposed housing units will change. If it costs more to build the
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infrastructure, they will have to increase the prices.
Tom Bourke thanked the Commissioners for their patience and their
tolerance and wishes them luck with their decision. People for years have
been trying to keep the next guy out. In this area, they must look at the
private property ownership rights. Adam's Rib owns around 5000 acres, Eagle
Ranch 1400 and more. Less than 20 to 25% are opposed to Adam's Rib. Adam's
Rib are not opposed to the other property owners. 'The rights don't give
Adam's Rib a fare shot. Development in lieu of Adam's Rib. . . million dollar
homes, hodgepodge architectural desi9lls, no control. 'This isn't a plan for
the development of Brush Creek. It lS rural. It's their own narrow view.
What effects him the most is the loss of the recreational facilities. In his
view, they are the most environmentally sensitive. Look at the people
outside the Brush Creek valley who will enjoy the facilities. 'This isn't
really a Brush Creek issue, its an Eagle County issue. All of the world will
have these oPI?ortunities. He personally thinks this is a needed recreational
facility. 'ThlS is a tourist area, always has been. 'The recreational
facilitles are the key to growth. If Adam's Rib doesn't happen there will
still be plenty of growth. Lastly, Adam's Rib does offer more compared to
most other developers. 'They offer a ski area, three golf courses, open
space, sewer and water. 'They're offering more than any other developer.
Kurt Kunkle, area resident, stated he is opposed to Adam's Rib for
reasons mentioned previously.
Richard C01Tlf?ton, from the Roaring Fork Valley, stated they have their
own develoI?ment lssues there. 'This has been described as a rural corridor as
Las Ve9as lS a rural corridor. Property rights, how much will he have to pay
to mitlgate this impact. Talking about the new jobs to be created will be
another 6000 people in the $16,000 to $18,000 income. Where are they going
to put the mobile homes. How about the schools for the workers. In essence
the developer is demanding from others. 'The ski business is flat and
eventually the golf business will go flat. He asks the Board to nip this
cancer in the bud.
Jim Kunkel, introduced himself as a burger flipper and a snowboarder.
He does not necessarily agree that snowboarders are economically hapless but
he thinks that and other things are leading to good things for the ski
industry. He worked on the sub area master plan advisory committee. He
agrees with some of what Susie and Mike stated earlier and it was a good
effort to get the values and the desires of the people of this area. 'They
enjoy the rural atmosphere, the small town friendly place that Eagle is at
this time. 'There are alot of small towns but one of the things that makes
Eagle uni<;rue is the great opportunities here for business and jobs. It is
that comblnation of values that makes this unique. He thinks the sub area
plan has a long way to go. He has suggested they start talkin9 with each
other a little bit more to try to bring the two sides of this lssue together.
'There is alot to be learned from both sides. OVer the course of this project
Adam's Rib has been asked to make a 9reat many commitments and they have done
so. 'They have been required to provlde land for utilities, parks, public
services, etc. and they should be held to each and everyone one of them. On
the other hand, government should be held to its commitments. In a number of
decisions made over the years they have said lets move forward. 'There are
alot of problems but there are a lot of opportunities.
Beverly Keifer, resident of the El Jebel trailer court, stated she
believes this to be outdated and that Adam's Rib should start over. She
urged Eagle County to take a strong stand on the environment. Look at the 1-
70 corridor and the ridge lines. We live here because the landscape is worth
protecting. Golf courses provide the same environment as a parking lot. She
believes Eagle County's first responsibility is to deal with the problems
already created, not create more.
Cynthia Lepthier, area resident, read a paragraph of her comments about
the development of Adam's Rib. 'The j est of her talk was that development
breeds development and questioned where the gravel will come from.
Ennis Isom, a resident for 22 out of 23 years, stated he has finished
school and come back to live here. He stated he is going to need a job and
today in the Vail Daily there were four pages of jobs. He's going to need a
place to live but that will continue to be the case even with Adam's Rib.
'The valley is a part of him and he is part of the valley. What makes Brush
Creek special will be gone.
Ken Gillman, stated he moved here in the early 60's and housing has
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
always been a problem, even in those days. He's not a golfer but housing is
something that is needed. 'The move down valley is happenin9 for a reason
because there is housing here. Every time there is a move lt opens up more
housing. We need housing, but if nothing else, it offers a good alternative
to housing. He was involved with the Battlement Mesa development. 'That
project was POD and approved at a bigger size than is here. Nothing was set
in stone and that project folded but still survived. If you'll allow this
project to go forward, he is sure it will move in a direction that will
benefit all.
Rick Juedemann, area resident, asked the Board to take a good smell.
He's in the construction field and knows many people who commute great
distances to their employment. He sees there being an organized minority
here who has nothing to do with their time. As far as Eagle, there is no
identity. 'There's the Vail/Beaver Creek Jet Center.
Ralph Parker, a construction worker who worked for Adam's Rib about five
years, doesn't understand what has taken so long. He wants to live here,
wants his son to grow up here. If you think Adam's Rib can keep this a cow
ranch, it going be a pretty expensive cow. He watches the money pass us by.
His future here depends on Adam's Rib. You don't know unless you take the
step.
Ron Haugland, area resident, spoke in support of the project as he
believes the economic viability depends on the leisure services. In looking
at this as compared to other projects, it stands up pretty well. One land
owner gives the County the best opportunity to control how the land will be
used.
Ted Seipel, a builder, feels that Adam's Rib and the associated golf
courses are a mistake. He has more to gain by the approval than many but
doesn't see the development outweighing the damage. 'There are not enough
people to fill the jobs now. 'There are too many low paying jobs and there
is not enough affordable housing. If approved at this time it will add fuel
to a runaway train. At some point we need to stop selling out the county.
We need to preserve this area for our future citizens.
Dana Dunbar, secretary for the Colorado Junior Golf Association and a
rater of golf courses, spoke to the issues. 'There are nine courses today in
this County, over 200 in the state, there are six to open this year and
eleven on the drawing board. Colorado Junior Golf meets the needs of 800
plus young people. She went on to discuss the golf needs of children and
then reflected on the bird house occupancy rate on golf courses in Colorado.
As a private citizen in this County, she noted, the property is either tax
supportive or tax generated. She stated it is naive to belleve in non
growth. It is the County's way of control under the POD. 'This applicant has
done everything to date that has been asked of him. Any lesser applicant
would have pulled out. What we experienced in the past is memories and what
we take to the future is the making of memories. She introduced photographs
into the record of animals and golf courses.
Francis Turgeon, a resident of Gypsum and a cabin owner in Fulford,
stated she believes that working together they will get much further. She
thinks everyone should be able to trust the applicant.
Richard Turgeon, a resident of Gypsum, sI?oke to the future of this area
and to children. 'The job opportunities are Ilmited and there are not many
opportunities for the children. It is too late to say we don't want change
or progress. 'This will give our children an opportunity to choose a future.
Gary Gilman, moved here in 1978 as a ski bum but he stayed because of
the opportunity to earn an income. He echoed Jim Kunkels sediments and his
support for Adam's Rib development.
Keith Montag, stated the next time slot set aside is December 19th and
Adam's Rib is scheduled for 10:00 a.m. 'There is an hour that has been set
aside and he would anticipate deliberation on that day. Over the past six
hearings there has been alot of testimony presented. At this time it is the
Board's call as to where they would like to go next.
Richard Carysle, from one of the few firms that handles growth
management as a field, stated housekeeping will be completed in the next day
or so to make sure all is in order with the exhibits.
Mr. Fritze stated rather than putting everything together tonight,
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perhaps they can do so in the next few days.
Mr. Carysle stated it starts with the notion that change is inevitable.
We've seen two types of planning. Stopgap and long term. Change is painful
and it is understandable that people want to keep things the way they were.
StopgaI? planning does not last. 'The community plan is a lost opportunity
that dld not listen to both sides. Charlie Wlck stated the tent scenarios
were in the town hall. 'The process, when done, gave a 66~ in favor of the
Adam's rib project. 1/3 was against. Mr. Carlysle implied the results were
not reflective of the population. He referred back to the book Rule by
Design and the experts who have something to offer. If you plan now, seize
the opportunity to put something into effect, you will be better off than a
stop gap plan. He referred to Meadows comment there are too many people in
the world. 'That is true, but you've got to plan for it. Her concerns about
the animals, there are ways to plan for it. When you take a large tract you
can accomplish the goals. 'The way to do it is through cooperation. What
they have come to are stop gap measures that are being proposed. 'IDR systems
won't work. 'They need a dialogue about fair treatment. 'The buck stops here
and the place for cooperation and for discussion is now.
Charlie Wick stated that Adam's Rib has a 20,000 bed base but that is
not people, it is beds.
commissioner Phillips thanked everyone for hanging in. She questions
the reduced density and asked if it is just for this application. She asked
about the time schedule and the increase from 1,500 to 4,000.
Charlie Wick responded the 4,000/4,300 employees in the EIS are direct,
indirect, and secondary. 'The permanent population is around 7,300 range in a
25 to 30 year period.
COmmlssioner Gates questioned the price of housing but was never given
any figures as to how the $150,000/$200,000 rate came about. At a price
increase to $400,000 he questions how that will be affordable for the people
of Eagle County. He doesn't understand how and when they will address
employee housing. 'They can't just shut off development and growth. 'The
ap~licant must have some rights that need to be considered and addressed.
Wlule he's heard only 4 - 7~ of the wildlife being effected he doesn't know
what that means. He thinks Adam's Rib is trying to address the riparian
habitat, but he feels he gets partial answers to questions.
Terrill Knight stated somewhere between 4 and 7~ of the property on this
development has any wildlife impact. 'The mitigation plan approves the
wildlife habitat.
Fred Kunmer addressed the concern of affordable housin9. He stated they
have about 7, 000 employees in their company and your not gOlng to have the
right kind of peoI?le if you can't provide the right kind of environment. In
looking at the Vall complex, he feels they can do a much better job. 'The
1982 ~lan spells out clearly the desire to have a successful environment.
'That lS something they are focusing on very closely. 'They have set up ways
to deal with getting the folks to deliver the product.
Chairman Johnson asked about getting two sets of findings.
Mr. Fritze responded they got one set but he is sure they will get
another.
Mr. Sinclair asked again about the written comment being accepted.
Chairman Johnson stated the Board will accept written public comment up
until 5:00 p.m this Friday.
Mr. Wick questioned the $400,000 price on units which Mr. Gates spoke
of. Mr. Wick said the $150,000 range will be for rental. 'The lower end may
go up from $175,000/$200,000 but they will have to look at that.
Dick Carysle stated in the Resolution there is a clause that deals with
the conditions of approval. 'There will be further dialogue.
Mr. Fritze asked Mr. Wick if the draft report submitted to the Board
dated 1/25/95 has a mix of housing which are identified by location. He
asked if this is one of the things that was corrected or lS it correct as it
is. Mr. Fritze read the figures.
Charlie Wick explained those figures are erroneous as read. Mr. Wick
stated this is sketch plan and what he is looking at is PES having put gross
numbers and averages.
Mr. Danielson reminded the Board the document states it is from
information provided by the applicant.
Mr. Fritze stated Exhibits 0, P and Q are being submitted but will be
numbered accordingly.
12
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
commissioner Gates moved to accept Exhibits 0, P & Q into the record.
Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared
unanimous.
Mr. Kummer stated their housing spectrum is from the lowest cost units
in Mill Park to the larger units on the golf course.
Chairman Johnson asked if there is a spectrum.
Mr. Kummer stated the range is from $99,000 on up.
Chairman Johnson thanked Staff and the applicant but most of all the
people who have been involved tonight and all other nights. Mr. Carlysle and
Mr. Fritze will submit a list of all exhibits to the Board and the Board will
deliberate.
Mr. Danielson asked they receive a copy of the list.
Commissioner Phillips moved to close this hearing to public comment but
allow letters and exhibits until 5:00 p.m on December 15, 1995.
Corrmissioner Gates seconded the motion. 'The vote was declared
unanimous.
Chairman Johnson stated he anticipates a decision to be made by next
Tuesday.
'There being no further business to come before this Board the meeting
was adjourned until December 18, 1995.
Attest: ,drt Q ~~
Ce 0 e oaCi
-d~~~~
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