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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 03/24/98 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 PUBLIC HEARING MARCH 24, 1998 Present: James Johnson, Jr. George "Bud" Gates Johnnette Phillips James Hartmann Sara J, Fisher Chairman Commissioner Commissioner County Administrator Clerk to the Board This being a scheduled Public Hearing the following items were presented to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration: PDS-00009, Adams Rib Residential Golf Community Paul Clarkson, Senior Planner, presented the continuance of file number PDS-00009, Adams Rib Residential Golf Community, He stated they left off in the middle of reviewing staffs conditions, He suggested they hadn't gotten through condition #1, Chairman Johnson asked how far they did get. Mr, Clarkson stated they had gotten to lB. Chairman Johnson asked for a copy of staffs conditions, Randy Cloyd, representing the applicant, handed out their summary. Terrill Knight, Knight Planning, explained the tabbing on their handout. He suggested the ones tabbed green are the issues with which they do not agree. Mr, Clarkson stated there are conditions the applicant does not agree to but the Planning Commission did, Those are on page nine, Mr, Knight asked the Board look at page 10, the yellow tab, to review those for submittal at preliminary plan, Commissioner Phillips stated those she compared to the Planning Commissions conditions, Mr. Knight stated there are issues in there they have disagreement with but they think the appropriate time to review them is at preliminary plan, They feel it is their responsibility to address them at preliminary plan, Chairman Johnson asked for a few minutes to review the list. He spoke to condition #8 and asked if that will be taken care of before preliminary plan, Mr. Clarkson stated they would want to see them specifically addressed at preliminary plan, Mr. Knight stated they don't have a concern with that. #8 will remain. Condition #10, Commissioner Gates suggested that is a must and it should remain, Mr, Knight stated there are a couple of detail things that need to be worked out. The objection is the design standard oftoday. Mr. Knight suggested the road will interface with other roads at west Eagle. The specific standard of arterial at this point is what they have a concern with. John Vengrin, Engineering, stated part of the problem is the plan hasn't investigated the off site impacts and whether the road system as proposed is adequate or not. They feel it should be designed with as few accesses as possible blending into Highway 6, All along Engineering's belief is that the traffic plan hasn't been designed with the hierarchy of streets, Mr, Knight asked ifthat means absolute four lane through out the project. Mr. Vengrin stated there needs to be adequate right of way for four lanes. An arterial doesn't necessarily require four lanes, Commissioner Phillips asked if the Engineering staff knows what is needed. Mr. Vengrin stated the plan is not far enough ahead, He stated in the plan that is submitted there has not been enough information submitted to staff. He stated the streets with the cul-de-sacs is new information, Chairman Johnson suggested they ask for a road design that asks for the right away, Engineering would have the opportunity to address this, He stated at preliminary plan they will bring in an adequate road design and provide the adequate right of way for an arterial road, Mr. Knight stated adequate right of way has been established, 1 Z Ol dn :>yooq U 10 p~pnpU! lUBld ~13UM~S U S! l! 19q1gqM JO UO!lUnIUA~ ~ql P~lUlS ~H 'UBld A.rnU!w!l~ld ~lOpq p~AOlddu pUB p~ll!wqns 1 to I pgl~ldwo:l U ~AUq Ol13U!A1l g.rn A~ql p~lUlS 'lg::>YJO qllu~H lUlU~UlU01!AU3 'All~W AUlI '~I13U3JO UMO.L ~ql ~q AUW l! 10 q!lI s,urnpy ~q AUW n '~q mM ~13UM~S pUU l~lUM ~qllUqM lU!Od S!qllU MOU:>y l,UOP A~ql su 1~ql~130l nU l~ ~lUU!W!P PlnoM A~ql P~lS~1313nS UOSuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) 'uO!pgfqo OU ~AUq A~ql 'UO!lUln13g1 ~ql13U!MOnO~ 'Ol p~fqo A~qllUqll!Ul~P dql S! n 'UUld A.rnU!w!l~ld OllOpd p~AOlddu ~q Ol p~~U mM ItOl ~ql P~lUlS lq13!U)I 'lW 'tl# 'UBld A.rnU!w!l~ld lU p~lS~nb;:ll13U!dq ~.rn SlddllS ~lUA!ld AqM uo pgp!AOld ~q nuqs UO!Ssn::>S!a 'UlglSAS l~~llS pgSOdOld ~ql uo P~P!AOld ~q nuqs UO!lUUllOJU! lUg!::>YJns Pdls~'B13ns sd!ll!qd l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'Ugql UO!S!::>~p U ~:>yUW UB::> A~ql U!.Idl!.I~ ~qlldgW l, USgOP l! pUU UUld A.rnU!WHdld lU lUql SSglPPU A~ql J! 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PlnoM Y puu P~lUlS su ~q mM l~ P~lUlS uosuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) 'P~lUU!WH~ 13U!~q ~l~M a pUB ';) 's: 'y J! p~:>ysu U!.I13U~A 'lW 'p~~l13U ny 'pgpnpu! ~q PlnoM Y ~lUlS A~ql P~lS~1313ns UOsuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) 'SdnSS! ~ql nu SS~lppU lOU s~op luql P~lUlS 'AgWOllY AlunO;) Alnd~a 'lglJJ~O'1 qos: 'a pUB ';) 's: 'y ~::>uld~l mM luqU! p~:>ysu uos:>y.rnl;) 'lW 'lOU PlnoM A~ql p~pUOdS~llq13!U)I 'lW 'UO!l!PUO::> ~ql ql!M w~yqold OU ~AUq PlnoM A~ql P~ls~1313ns uosuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 the town will require a great deal of review. Commissioner Gates suggested they would need to do so before preliminary. Mr. Merry stated they will want to make sure the 1041 is completed and approved before preliminary plan so they are not reviewed concurrently. The 1041 shall be submitted and approved prior to the submittal of the preliminary plan. They took out all the verbiage in between. Mr, Knight stated they would have a problem with that and ifthe Town of Eagle is submitting the 1041 they would have no control over that, Mr. Knight stated they would object to not having the ability to submit both plans concurrently for review, Chairman Johnson stated they have some very strict guidelines on how long they can hold on to a preliminary plan without it being approved, If there is a problem with the 1041 they may not be able to act on the preliminary plan in the time periods required, Mr, Merry stated once they submit the 1041 it should include all the of the requirements and be the best possible plan. The applicant must be aware of the risk they are taking. Chairman Johnson stated that is one of his concerns because you don't have the same time lines for the 1041 as for the preliminary plan, Commissioner Phillips asked if there is a regulation that requires the 1041 be submitted, Mr. Loeffler stated the 1041 has to be approved before the preliminary plan, Mr. Merry stated that is one of the things that is taken into consideration, Mr. Knight stated as long as they will live by the rules and they understand that. They agreed # 14 could be eliminated. Mr, Merry stated that would not be their recommendation. Mr. Knight stated they agree with the removal but it is up to them to meet the standards, # 16, Mr. Knight stated this is not a requirement ofthe regulations. He suggested if this is on every envelope they object. They do have to provide, by preliminary plan, an overview ofthe proposed building areas, Commissioner Gates asked if this is over and above the regulations, Mr. Vengrin stated the soils report they submitted identified some sensitive soils. Typically for road construction they would like to see how they arrive at designs for the road, It is not something where you provide a single design. The Engineering Department requires a complete design at preliminary plan, Chairman Johnson stated this not only talks about doing soil samples for the roadways but for each and every lot. Mr. Knight stated they must do an analysis on the road but not on every building envelope, Adequate soils and geological reports will be submitted for the subdivision at preliminary plan, Mr. Knight asked if they are rewording 16, Chairman Johnson stated it would be as Commissioner Phillips stated, # 17 Mr. Knight stated they have to provide adequate engineering information as necessary. They will provide those at preliminary plan. Chairman Johnson stated again, this is a flag for the Board and the staff. #17 will remain as written. #19 Mr. Knight stated the issue of real estate in wildfire areas is a condition of preliminary plan. Chairman Johnson stated #19 will remain, #20 Chairman Johnson asked if they can strike it as the Army Corps is on the referral list. All agreed, #23 Mr. Knight suggested the NWCOG are not requirements. Mr. Clarkson suggested they be made requirements of this preliminary plan, Mr. Knight stated they are not a regulatory agency, They would object to adopting their initial recommendations, Mr. Loeffler suggested all it asks them to do is give written comment to their issues, Mr. Knight stated then they would not object. #24 Mr. Knight stated they are working with the DOW and they intend to make an agreement acceptable to Eagle County with the DOW's input. They are a recommending body but not a regulatory body, Mr. Clarkson stated the Planning Commission rewrote this condition and H is acceptable to staff. Mr. Knight stated they agree as well but believe it is at preliminary plan, Commissioner Gates stated if there is a concern of wildlife and they go too far down the road, then it can almost be too late, The applicant may want to address these as soon as possible, Commissioner Phillips asked on the mitigation plan if they submitted monies to the fund of the DOW. She 3 t '~lUU!W!P Ol ~AUq U~ql PlnoM A~qllUqM p~:>ySU sd!mqd l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'lU~wdol~A~p ~ql JO UO!llod S!qllOJ Al!SU~P 13u!snoq U! ~SU~l::>U! UB s: lOJ ~lnl!lsqns Ol pglUBM ~H 'S: 13uqUU!W!P lll!M WgWggl13U U! 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P~lUlS q~!lU)I !qurn.L ~Z# '~AOqU P~lUlS su ~::>uld~l13U!~q ~::>U~lU~S lsuI ~qllnq S! su pU~l mM tZ# P~lUlS uosuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) "gp!nD and ~ql Aq p~::>U~l~pl pUB p;:lplO::>~l gq nuqs AlunO;) gl13U3 Ol glquldg::>::>u S! q::>!qM uUld UO!lU13!l!Ul gJ!IPEM U pglS;:l1313nS uosuqO[ UBUll!Ull;) 'ngM su uUld Aluu!w!pld lU gUOP ~q mM SUO!lUUOP ;:lSoql ~A~!pq A~q.L 'pUllJ lSill.L :}J!lPEA\ ~ql Ol UO!lUUOP U dpnpU! oSlu q::>!qM sd~lS JO Sd!lgS U ~.rn ~l~ql p~lUlS lq13!U)I 'lW 'p~q::>UllU s~~J IUUO!l!PpU ~q mM ~l~ql J! p~:>ysu BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 Chairman Johnson stated that he only wanted to increase the density. Fred Kummer, applicant, stated they have looked at that further and could increase it to 212 with the pocket parks. Commissioner Phillips suggested to up-zone rather than down-zone is nothing she can fathom, Chairman Johnson suggested that upzoning is not inconsistent. They have said they want to increase the affordable housing inventory within the County, He asked Commissioner Gates for his input. Commissioner Gates stated they may be able to increase it but it depends on the land, He stated the one problem he has is with the second homes and the caretaker units, He stated he would rather see the caretaker units go into the affordable housing, Commissioner Phillips suggested she doesn't have any problem with it then, Chairman Johnson suggested they would like the applicant to look at it for preliminary plan, Mr, Kummer stated they have looked at it for duplexes which seems to be practiced and they think it may make a lot of sense. #1I Mr. Clarkson stated there are two reasons for this particular condition, #1 being an analysis of what the Eagle Area Plan and Master Plan recommend as densities, and other being concerns with geologic, wildfire, and hazard. Commissioner Gates asked if that is scientific or guess work. Mr. Clarkson stated he can show the numbers. Mr, Knight stated during testimony presented this is within the recommended densities, Mr. Kummer stated there is no calculation that can take the Eagle Area Plan and come out less, He stated even if you use the one calculation of the net, you still end up with over thirteen hundred units, They come up between 1800 and 2000, He stated the reality is this is based on the Eagle Area Plan, Commissioner Gates asked for clarification from Mr, Clarkson. Mr. Clarkson stated the master plan makes suggested numbers, They have to take into consideration streets, slopes, and the use of the Master Plan, He stated the squiggly lines are based on the Master Plan, He suggested by using the master plan and a degree of clustering, staff would be willing to suggest a density bonus resulting in a density of about 1000 units. That equates to an overall density of about 24% less, Commissioner Phillips asked if they are looking at this through the PUD or a subdivision, Mr. Clarkson stated it is a development proposal whether PUD or conventional. The master plan allows for a degree of creativity but because it is a PUD you can't ignore the master plan, Mr. Clarkson stated the Planning Commission did not agree with staffs analysis, Mr. Kummer stated to decrease density is going to drive the price up, There are lots that may be more expensive than in the Town of Eagle but not if one compares the plan they propose with Eagle Vail, Arrowhead, etc, They will have ,87 units per acre, A world of difference, They are clustering using the golf course to improve density, This is a low density project. He spoke to the Terrace and the vision that this should be that kind of density is ludicrous, One of the things he feels good about in this development is that it takes 1369 acres out ofthe market place, He stated the PUD was designed for a more rational use of land. He spoke to the demonstration of land and need, Mr. Knight stated there are numerous issues in master plans that look at density but they also require working with terrain, visual impact, etc, They believe the plan accommodates this. Charlie Wick, representing the applicant, spoke to the net average density of 4 units per acre. They are using the 4 average units per acre and are coming up with the 1800 units, Even if you use net acreage you come up with 1350. Chairman Johnson ask him to read the remainder to the sentence. Mr, Wick did so, Chairman Johnson suggested the reduction not include the area in the affordable housing, Mr. Clarkson stated the Planning Commission discussed this at great length and a couple ofthe members did not believe a reduction was necessary. Commissioner Phillips asked if they are increasing numbers in one area it would reduce numbers in another. Commissioner Gates suggested he questions what really is compatible, He questioned whether the applicant can reduce it. He questioned if they reduce the density the cost will be applied throughout the whole project. Mr. Kummer stated the higher end housing is allowing the affordable housing to happen, You are subsidizing the costs, 5 9 S~lJO Sl~:>ylOM A.rnlOdW~llOJ p~ll!wqns UBld 13u!snoq ~gAOldw~ uu ~q ~l~ql P~ls~1313ns uosuqO[ UBUll!Uq;) . Alm::>UJ 13u!durn:J A.rn.10dWdl 13 'BU!PHnq U! lS~l~lU! OU ~AUq A~q.L '13u!durn::> A.rnlOdW~llOJ UO!lU::>ol ~lU!ldOlddUU~ UB S! 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S!ql P~lUlS uosuqO[ UBUll!Uq;) 'UBld A.rnU!WH~ld lU ~::>UBq::> l~qlouu ~AUq mM ~q P~lUlS s~lUD l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'Al!SUdP ~ql ~SUdl::>;:lp Ol SlUBM ~qJ! sdluD 19UO~SS!WWO;) p~:>ysu uosuqO[ UBUll!Uq;) 'UO!SS!WWO;) 13u!lilrnld ~ql ql!M uo!ssn::>s!p JO Alugld SUM ~l~ql puu lno lq13noql n~M u~~q suq Al!SU~P ~ql S:>yU!ql ~qs P~lUlS sd!lHqd l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'Al!INnudwo::> gqllU :>yool Ol ~::>uuq::> U ~AUq mM A~ql UUld AlUU!Ul!Pld lU P~lUlS S~luD l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'p~ls~nb~l su Al!SU~P ~ql ~Au~l pUB p~ll!wqns su U! ~wo::> UBld ~ql ~~s Ol ~:>Y!l PlnoM ~qs P~lUlS sd!lHqd l~UO!SS!WWO;) BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 project. Commissioner Phillips stated the Planning Commission disagreed and she would to, Commissioner Gates suggested the applicant will have to address that himself. Condition #4 was eliminated. #5 Commissioner Phillips stated she would like this to read as the Planning Commission revised, She read those items being A, B, and C, Chairman Johnson suggested the applicant shall provide an independent and professional analysis addressing A, B, and C, He suggested it is under the Town's review, Commissioner Phillips asked what a professional analysis entails, Mr. Knight stated the scope is very open ended, They provide information oftheir impacts, To put plans together for the other agencies is not a requirement. Chairman Johnson stated it would only be for this proposal. Mr. Knight stated they will provide their impacts. Chairman Johnson stated it will read the applicant shall provide independently prepared professional analysis that will relate to A, B, and C, Commissioner Phillips asked for clarification, Mr, Knight stated it will be done in a professional manner and it is a pretty fine line, He stated they have to provide that information and it has be done in a professional manner. Mr, Clarkson suggested this hadn't been developed by other developers in the past. #5 will be as outlined by Chairman Johnson, #6 the Board agreed to eliminate. #7 Chairman Johnson stated he disagrees with the Planning Commission because there is no one in house that does the financial impact analysis, He thinks it is appropriate to have it sent out to an individual. Mr. Knight suggested their concern is at the applicant's expense, He believes they should not be paying for this twice, He stated they have no problem with them reviewing it. Chairman Johnson stated this analysis should be at the County's expense, Commissioner Gates stated these analysis and studies adds to the costs of units as well. Chairman Johnson suggested #18 h een ~n care of with the condition of the soil and geologic reports being submitted. Mr. Knight agreed, Mr. Clarkson stated the Planning Chairman Johnson suggested it shou A ten minute break was taken, Mr, Loeffler stated they have concluded the discussion of conditions and are waiting on a motion, Commissioner Gates stated he would like to change the 20% to 10% reduction of density, He suggested that knowing it will increase the costs, Commissioner Gates moved to approve file number PDS-00009, Adams Rib Residential Golf Community, incorporating the conditions as discussed and changing the change in density to 10%. Chairman Johnson asked what caused him to change his mind and ifhe was lobbied, Commissioner Gates said he was riding the fence and has changed his mind, Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion and asked if they need to review the conditions, In discussion, Commissioner Gates stated it was implied someone had influenced his thinking, He is not making this decision as a political issue and feels it is fair. Chairman Johnson stated he does not believe this proposal with the amended conditions meets the need, He believes it has not been fully established that there is a need for a golf course and a resort community, Commissioner Gates stated there are lots of things that go into this, This is not just employee housing, He believes the PUD is much better than 1 in 35. Commissioner Phillips stated the Board worked on conditions for this development and that Chairman Johnson had a big part in doing so, To say they haven't reached a consensus she questioned his motive. She wonders about the need for this particular development however, she agrees it will be developed, perhaps not in a day or two or maybe in the next twenty years. She prefers to see one developer, one plan. She believes after working on this over three days meetings this plan is acceptable, Chairman Johnson noted there was a significant change in what was approved over what was proposed, 7 8 --~ os: gql Ol :>ylgl;) :lS~llY '8661 'Of q::>.rnw moo p~wnofpu SUM 13U!l~~W ~ql p.rnos: ~ql dlOpq lq13nOlq dq Ol Ssgu!snq ldqlltlJ ou 13U!~q ~l~q.L 'ou 13U!lOA UOsuqO[ l~UO!SS!WWO;) pUB ~AU 13U!lOA S~lUD pUB sdHEqd Sl~UO!SS!WWO;) 'UO!lOW ~ql uo uO!ls~nb ~qllOJ p~nu::> UOsuqO[ UBUll!uq;) 'P~lUU!W!P SUM 1 f# 'l~H.rng P~UO!lU~W su Sl~~llS ::>Hqnd ~ql ql!M S! pun JJo lnqs ~q lOU sPUBI ::>!lqnd luqllu~W~l!nb~l U S! I f# 'P~lUU!W!P ~q l! 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