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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 03/17/98 BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEt:S 387869 PUBLIC HEARING MARCH 17, 1998 Present: James Johnson, Jr. George "Bud" Gates Johnnette Phillips James Hartmann Sara J, Fisher Chairman Commissioner Commissioner County Administrator Clerk to the Board This being a scheduled Public Hearing the following items were presented to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration: PDS-00009, Adams Rib Residential Golf Community Chairman Johnson stated this is file number PDS-00009, Adams Rib Residential Golf Community, He stated this is a continuation from the hearing on March 9, 1998, He stated the Town of Eagle has asked they be allowed to speak first as they must attend a Town planning meeting, Willie Powell, Eagle Town Manager, stated he would like to note that in comparison with other requests from Adam's Rib this has been an improvement moving density closer to town. He has had dialogue with Mr, Kummer about East and West Brush Creek. With regard to this development they do have some issues, Density- they heard the applicant state this property could afford 1900 units. The Town feels it should be closer to 1300 units, They don't believe this is down zoning and whether it is in the right location they have some continued concerns. The second concern is the nature and character of the subdivision. As applied for they state 65 - 75% will likely be owned by second home owners, The applicant has said 60% will be primary owners. In reviewing the price lists, it appears to be pretty pricy, They would like to see 50% with a range of affordability, The Town thinks there should be a larger continuum working up the ladder. Regarding water and waist water services, he referred to a letter sent to the Board and assured them in previous meetings they have had meaningful and progressive conversations, Mr. Powell stated they spoke to three areas of impact to the Town of Eagle that they felt needed to be addressed relating to schools, adequate parks and road impact fees to do the kind of improvements that will be needed. They oppose the idea of creation of duplicate water and waste water systems, He referred to the planned improvements of their water system, They feel they will be best served by good water planning and survival of the water shed, They will continue discussion if this is improved, The third area of concern is the cumulative impact in and around Eagle. He spoke to the plans already on the board and the new units totaling 2800 units, Currently there are 1200 units and the addition will make for a substantial increase trippleing the size of the town at build out, He spoke to the needed improvements, the road, water and school impacts. Classrooms are a substantial concern as are teacher to student ratios. This is not a bad plan but they are concerned with the location and if this is the best time to subdivide this area, It is a hugh question and between all oftheir concerns right now they feel the most appropriate move is denial at this time, He appreciates the Board allowing this time to voice their concerns. Larry McKinzey, planner for the Town of Eagle, stated he has outlined his concerns and the relationship to the Eagle Area Community Plan, He stated there were representatives from Adam's Rib present at the meetings. After reviewing the proposals for West Eagle and the Adam's Rib Plan, the West Eagle developer worked hard with the Community to develop a plan that will work. He stated Adam's Rib has had more of a tail wagging the dog approach, He spoke to the plan and the desire to concentrate growth adjacent to the Eagle area, The community plan spoke to 7 to 10,000 people in Eagle. Without even considering Adam's Rib, they will reach the 10,000 population. He spoke further to the growth. He urged the Board not to hurry through their review, They support the County Staffs position on the site plan allowing them and the public time for greater review, He suggested if the applicant is not willing to extend the review time, the Board should deny the plan, The second goal was defined in minimizing the breaking up ofthe Brush Creek valley. They propose 35 acre parcels with clustering, Land within the growth boundaries and immediately adjacent to the Town is recommended to 4' units per acre. 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PUBI ::>!lqnd Ol SSg::>::>u ~q.L 'P~fOld S!ql Ol Sp.rn13~l U! puuI u~do P~l~P!SUO::> lOU S! l! ~::>uds u~do P~l~P!SUO::> S! ~smo::> Jlo13 q13noql P~lUlS ~H 'l~ql!~ 13U!OP lOU S! lUB::>!lddu ~Ill sP~J ~H 'spuuI ::>!lqnd Ol SS~::>::>U ~lU!ldOlddu ~P!AOld pUB ~::>uds u~do ~Al~s;)ld Ol S! qlJY ~q.L 'SlOp!llO::> UB!.rndp ~ql BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEl'S 387869 She suggested that saving time from traveling may help them buy in Brush Creek Valley, Fred Kummer has been working with this valley for quite some time. They asked what they could do for Eagle when they started the senior housing, He has done that, Brush Creek is a beautiful valley but without growth the Town of Eagle will die, She spoke to a letter from Ella Bindley who was unable to attend, She read the letter that was in favor of Adam's Rib, She favors the golf course and the management by the recreation district. She stated she does not feel it will cause more people to move in, She spoke to her history in the County and believes there has been partiality to Vail and Vail Associates, She spoke to the expense incurred by Adam's Rib in bringing this forward again and again, Gerry Sandberg, thanked the Board for allowing him to address the group, He is a resident of Gypsum and a School Board member. His comments reflect the growth as it relates to the children. He feels the need to address the growth in the valley and especially in the west end, Presently, out of the 4000 children in the 12 schools, 2000 are in the four schools in Eagle and Gypsum. At this end we're stuffed and there are problems. He spoke to the defeated bond issue, They are assessing the feasibility of coming back, Exacerbating this is the growth at this end of the valley. If more developments come on line, they will have major growth concerns, The schools are needed now, And this will cause more children. He spoke to transporting students or do they increase the class size, piling modulars upon modulars, more staff and more expense, He stated his daughter is in kindergarten with 21 children which is too many, It is only going to get worse, Even if a bond passes, the bricks and mortar are two years away, He spoke to the loosers being the children, He apologized because he has to leave but is available for questions if anyone wants to speak to him, Hugo Benson, managing a printing company in Eagle and lives in Gypsum, stated he supports this project. He spoke to the two hotels being built, the neighborhood grocery store going out of business has changed the community, He stated he believes this is a good plan which will bring money into this part of the community, allowing schools to be built. He supports the project and hopes they vote in favor of it. Mike Metcalf, a mile up Brush Creek, stated he agrees with the analysis of the Town concerning this project. He is not totally opposed and believes it could work, He was part ofthe process ofthe development of both plans, He stated if a person's voice wasn't heard, they weren't there, He would like to see growth slow down but he still likes it here, The new projects do conform, He is appalled by the number of units that can be built within the community plan even though he was part of it. He would like to support the position of the Town and hopes the Board either denies or approves this application incorporating the conditions of the planning staff. Bob McKinzie a Bruce Creek resident, stated there is nobody who deserves to have a project approved more than Fred Kummer. He stated Mr. Kummer reminds him of Bob Hope who never received recognition, He thinks the Board can help Fred get his lifetime achievement award by helping him do a quality project. He is not there yet. He thinks this is a resort, He touched on water, traffic and congestion., Fred and the community will not come together to create a project. It is too open ended. Their turning down the ski area project got him to the table and made it practical. No the impacts of this project are too enormous and they won't move forward with out further study. It does not meet the needs ofthe community and the applicant needs to come back with a better plan, Good citizenship is really good business and why doesn't Fred come forward to work with the County Commissioners to meet the concerns, Ed Crilly, a twelve year resident, spoke to 1-70, the airport and a world class ski area, How long will this stay a secret. Nobodys planned for the future, No plan has happened for affordable housing, for schools, and planning for the future. He is in favor of Adam's Rib and he thinks it is the time for this plan, Why should the County sit back and say lets wait until the towns can get their act together. Steve Jones stated this is his last time and he's not coming in anymore, He is in favor ofthe project and so is his wife, He thinks it is about as good as it is going to get for them, Jack Cornell, a Brush Creek resident, stated he's been in construction and it is slowing down up valley, The beautiful valley has been discovered and it is no longer the same. 1/3 to Y2 the people in Eby Creek and the Terrace are in construction. He has had to go to Phoenix and Denver to work to make ends meet. In wanting to preserve the valley, a golf course is the #1 preservation ofland in the world, Ifthe fertilizer is so bad, there would be no tolerance, He stated he goes in and out of Arrowhead and it just keeps people honest. Nobody wanted the ski resort and they put another project on the table, He stated letting this go by will hurt the community, Ifthis commission is influenced by other big corporations, he asked them to put that aside for the good of those who live here, Clinton Mehl, a neighbor of Adam's Rib since its existence, stated as a resident of Brush Creek Valley he believe this has the merits and is worthy of the approval. He spoke to the half truths and the exaggerations, He stated those who claim to want to keep the pristine valley will construct a monstrously large water tank, He spoke 3 t U! pun UMOl puno.rn SIUW!UB ~ql pun l~~p ~ql S~~S ~qs P~lUlS ~qS 'UMOl Ol s~:>YN l!~ql ~P!l Ol p~MOnU l,U~.rn U~lpnq::> l~H 'Sl~13UBp ~ql pUU PUOlI :>y~~l;) qSillS: UO sl~qwnu ~ql Ol ~:>yods ~qS 'Sl!Ull ~:>y!q 'Sl!Ull UB!llS~nb~ 13U!OP S! 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The old Board of Commissioners approved Eby Creek, Greg Caretto a business man in the area and an Eagle County resident for 25 years, stated he was a ski bum and is now just a bum, He plays in the lowest river valleys and the highest mountain peaks, He supports this plan and thinks it is very good, The only thing that is constant is change, What do we want our children and our children's children to have. He spoke to his car breaking down and the fact he walked six miles up Brush Creek Road, He supports this and as we have exposed ourselves to the world, into the world class airport, change will come, He stated there are many who want to come here, Bill Wittiker, stated he is fourth generation Brush Creek valley, He stated something happened at the Planning Commission meeting. He spoke to a guy who stated Adam's Rib is such a horrible thing, He stated the guy said he moved here a year ago, He stated his pet peeve is how many new comers have jumped on the band wagon to say no more, He stated this is important enough for him to step up to the mike, He questioned what will happen if this is not approved or so many conditions are placed that it won't go forward, He stated Mr, Kummer is willing to pay for the infrastructure, schools, parks, etc. He stated when he walked in he heard that the hotel doesn't make it a community, That doesn't take away from a community, The other thing he heard was something about stacking the room. He stated this is the first time the Concerned Citizens have maybe been out numbered, Ron Mitchell, resident in Edwards, stated though he may be a minority tonight he has spoken out since he moved here in 1981. He feels this project is not being fair to the community and focuses on the wealthy, Not everyone plays golf or likes the game, The only reason the golf courses are being proposed is for the developers to rake in on the profits, He spoke to those being in favor who are developers or those living adjacent that will see their land values increase, He spoke to the quality of life in Eagle County going to hell in a hand basket. He suggested we need to spend more time worrying about the County in 15 to 25 years and less time worrying about short term development and construction workers. He spoke to a poll in the paper recently, He urged the Commissioners to deny the project, Betsy Murry, who lives in the Terrace subdivision and a neighbor of the project, stated she grew up in the valley and built a home 1 and \Iz years ago, She could not afford to do it today. The prices are getting out of control. Cutting back the density will make it less affordable or Fred will have to cut the project. She grew up in Eagle Vail and feels the only good quality is the golf course. She pointed out that golf courses are beautiful open space, She stated they played on it at night, took their dogs there and thinks that those opposed to them are wrong. She pointed out that Fred is giving amenities that others have not been required to do. She thinks that he is acting responsibly, She stated there are a lot of people here who she feels are hypocrites. If there wasn't growth, we wouldn't be enjoying what we have now, She remembers when times weren't so good. A lot of people have moved away and it is important that we keep a healthy economy, She urged the Board to approve the project. Eric Johnson, an Edwards resident and Colorado native, stated he feels this project represents quality and compatibility with the site and the region. Having grown up in Denver, Boulder, and now Eagle County he feels the land use demonstrates a sensitivity to open space, circulation and environmental quality, He thinks Mr. Kummer has demonstrated with earnest the desire to create a quality project. Cynthia Lindahl, an Eagle resident for ten years and has made Eagle her home, spoke in favor of the project which provides diversity and hopefully employment. She has commuted to Vail. She stated she would like to see the improvement of Brush Creek Road, She thinks the hotel is a great amenity and hopes her child can go to prom in Eagle. She would like to see the Chamber hold the extravaganza in Eagle, She stated she likes second homeowners. They spend money here, contribute to business and to charities, they place limited demands on public services, She agrees the school issue is important and believes it can be solved, She believes it will attract telecommuters and the air service will provide great opportunity, She also questions the concern with gated communities, She doesn't believe the density is that big an issue and will provide a school site, a public golf course and great amenities, She urged the Board to approve the plan. Trent Eichler, born and raised on Brush Creek, stated though he grew up there a development ofthis class is the best possible thing, He suggested worse things could happen like a hog farm. He spoke to the concern of others buying it in 35 acre parcels, He spoke to the Eagle Area Plan and these being the same people who wanted to ban porch lights. 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P~!llOM ~AUq Plnoqs BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 impossible with all the fees and the added stuff, There is a large need for housing and he prefers to be in Eagle and in this town, Jody O'Connel, here on behalf of herself as a single parent, stated she has a goal and desire to build a home at Adam's Rib, She spoke to conflict management and the solutions it brings, She stated this project is a meeting of the minds and comes to the center to produce a win win situation, She spoke to the open space, the affordable housing and meeting the needs of the communities, She spoke to local clubs and organizations using the hotel. It is a unique quality to have a hotel on the golf course. Her greatest concern is the decrease in density and that the 25% decrease might price her and others out. Ken Hughey, an Eagle Vail resident, stated he has enjoyed a golf course community as a quality environment. He is hoping that once this is approved, and if it doesn't become too expensive, that he likes it down valley and he would be interested in living there, He urged this be approved as it is a quality project. Terry Agburn, area resident, voiced her support of the project. A resident for 15 years and a resident ofEby Creek for four years, she is a real estate broker and would love to be able to offer her clients some options, She stated the least expensive lot at Eby Creek is $85,000. She voiced her support and asked they not reduce the density, Mary Moore, area resident, stated she hopes the Board can be viewed as the light at the end of the tunnel. She stated they just bought a place having lived her four and 1Iz years moving from a double wide to a single wide mobile home, But, its going to be hers, She stated she is no slouch herself, She stated they hope this will be a leaping stone for them, She stated the American dream is starting out small and giving someone behind you a chance to grow. She suggested if it happens before Fred Kummer dies they might be able to build there, Michael was born in Rifle and raised in small towns, she was raised in up state New York, a dairy farm community, She spoke to all the legal requirements and the need to do business in the County seat. She stated Eagle doesn't fit that anymore and she is not sure if it did. Its a nice place here and those of us who work really hard love it just as much as the rich people, They want a place that offers amenities that are not out of reach. She asked this be the light at the end of the tunnel for Mr. Kummer and for the rest of us, Tell them they are welcome and they are wanted to stay here, Allen Best, area resident, stated much has been said about supply and demand and with more supply the prices should come down, He stated he hasn't sat through all the hearings and has not heard the discussion ofthe prices, He stated he has heard that the working people want a place to live and that would be here, He suggested the gated communities have historically been the high end. He questions if this meets the needs, He asked they carefully review the need for housing for medium income and below, He spoke to the need to take care of our own, Ifthis project does that, they may not have to go back and meet with the other Commissioners, Mike Moore, area resident, suggested he doesn't have a lot of good things to say about skiers or about golfers for that matter, Affordable housing is the big deal. With 170 units you will not have everyone living there and working for Mr. Kummer. There are other people that can fill some of the jobs now being filled by people from Parachute and Rifle, We need people living here, He remarked on the stacking ofthe room, He suggested if they aren't burning up the phone lines, think again, Usually they are present in force. If given the power, they would put a gate up at the Y and lock it. He stated there is a large scale plan that encompass a lot of land in one package, The alternative is what is up in Upper Kaibab and see what you'll have. Imagine what will be seen. Roy Moser, area resident, stated he's been here since 1925, He stated the affordable homes talked about were affordable when they were $2000 to $3000 but who had the money to buy one, He stated most anyone over a period of time can buy a home, By chopping off the new developments there won't be money enough to buy, He stated the comments on the impact of the game, he suggested they drive up Beaver Creek. There are elk and deer everywhere, Larry Benway, area resident, stated he has a letter from Fred and Joyce Butler in support of the project. He stated he finds it encouraging to watch the public participation. What they are talking about is community and the Town of Eagle, The community is the reason everyone wants to come here, Eagle, the community oftoday and hopefully down the road is still a community, This is an equatable community, Let's not let that go by the board, We need to do this and in a big way. Community is about opportunity for young and for old, Our children will have more opportunities, He stated his first job was as a caddie, Maybe something like that is possible in a real community, He has the golf bug after many years and goes to Rifle because its affordable, He wants to play golf here, Lets not pass that up, Today in this country there are more golf scholarships given out than ski scholarships, If we pass this thing with the requested densities, at least 170 will have an opportunity to get in, 7 8 P~lUlS ~H '8u!snoq ~yqUPlOJJU ~ql S~lUU!W!P l! ~snu::>~q IU!U;)P ~q AnU::>~SUq PlnoM luql P~lUlS l~wum)l 'lW 'UO!pnp~l %OZ ~ql ql!M lU~W~~l13U U! lOU ~.rn A~ql J! p~:>ySU s~luD l~UO!SS!WWO;) 'l';)g[Old ~qllnO"q13no1ql13u!snoq lu::>ol ;:lP!AOld ollln::>YJW Al~A l! S~:>yUW pun ~A!SU~dX~ ~lOW q::>nw 13u!snoq s~:>yUw Al!SU~P JO 13U!l~MOl ~q.L 'UBld ~ql pUB PUBI ~ql JO lU~WSS;)SSU ~yqUUOSU~l U UO p~suq lOU S! 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S! ~q P~lUlS 'fL61 ~::>U!S lU~P!S~l U 'unUllO'1 ApOOA\ BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEt:S 387869 he would like to see a vote tonight, Paul Clarkson, Senior Planner, suggested he would go through staff's conditions and the Planning Commissions reaction, He stated during the hearings the applicant had agreed to six conditions those being 3, 8, 9, 15,22, and 28, Chairman Johnson suggested there were others. Mr. Clarkson read condition #3 and asked if the Board was in agreement. The Board concurred with the condition, Mr. Clarkson stated on condition #9 the applicant and Planning Commissioner agreed, Jim Fritz stated he is confused with the procedure, Chairman Johnson stated they have three different proposals with conditions to review. He suggested he would want the Board to understand what the conditions are as they have been laid out and then take it all together, The Board concurred with condition #9, #15 and #20, Mr, Clarkson stated condition #21 is different but and the applicant has agreed to remove the sporting clays, The Board concurred. The Commissioners also agreed with condition #22. Commissioner Phillips asked if that is okay with the Normans. Mr. Kummer stated he is still working with them, The Board concurred with conditions #27 and #28, Mr, Clarkson stated on II, page 2, it is difficult to understand, Chairman Johnson asked for input on how this brings the plan into conformance, Mr, Clarkson stated this is the condition that makes it most difficult for staff to find conformance with, A - K don't really stand on their own, F and G, the removal ofthe golf courses and the relocation of units is the interpretation that was the intent of both master plans, A, the elimination of the 9 hole par three golf course was concerned with lot size. That relates closely to E with the opening of one of the 18 hole courses being open to public play, That relates to the public tot lots and dedication of the municipal course to the south, Those interrelate, In looking at the total land being dedicated for public use is 120 acres, 40 acres are dedicated for 170 dwelling units, there is 30 acres dedicated to fire, ambulance, recreation and school. Chairman Johnson asked if they are figuring housing in with public land dedication, Mr. Clarkson stated the applicant is proposing a public golf course mixed with 40 acres of housing and mixed with 30 acres of public dedication, The school district has asked for 25 acres leaving about 1 acre for recreation, It was staff interpretation, based on the application and discussions that perhaps it might be best that the south side of the road be dedicated to public use, a much better provision could be provided for school, ambulance, and recreation, That means the nine hole course could not be developed in that area, This was an analysis staff made and presented to the applicant. It was proposed to the applicant early on while laboring on the assumption the lot sizes would be 6000 square feet. They now are at 8900 square feet and they are more in line with what is out in the Terrace, Commissioner Gates questioned in moving these things he isn't sure they are best using the land. He is asking ifthey are making the projects fit to the land. Commissioner Phillips suggested the Planning Commission didn't agree to much that is being proposed, She believes it does look at the Master Plan and the Eagle Area Community Plan, It should not be a strict interpretation of density in a subdivision as this is a PUD, She would agree with the Planning Commissions recommendations, Chairman Johnson stated he doesn't understand B completely and is not sure what it means to open one of the 18 hole golf courses up to public play, He spoke to Singletree and asked what the discussion was when this was proposed, Mr. Clarkson stated the opening of one of courses to public play goes hand in hand with the elimination of one of the 9 hole courses. Chairman Johnson asked ifMr. Clarkson plays golf, Mr. Clarkson stated he does not. Chairman Johnson stated there is a difference between a 9 hole and 18 hole course and would like to know what Mr, Kummer intends, Mr. Kummer spoke to the ski area an the effort to make available skiing to the public, He doesn't know what formula that will take but he will make every effort to develop a program to create maximum opportunity for locals. He stated he will work on looking for models. He agrees to get more play on the courses is a desirable 9 01 pUU s;:u::m O'Ot S! ;:U;;lql ~U!AUS ;;l.ll3 A;;lq.l 'o/r pUU V Ips UIM A;;lql S;;ll:JU ;;lAY l;;l~ A;}qlJ! P;}lS;;l~~nS l;}WWll)l.JW 'P;;l;}l~U lq~!U)I '.JW ';}lY pUU ;}:JuulnqU.ll3 Ol ;}A!~ OllU;}ql JO lU;}lU;}l!nb;}l ou S! ;}l;}q.l 'UOnU;}l:J;}llOJ 17'9 puu Iooq:JS Ol ~'17Z ;;lUOp ;}AUq A;;lql Iooq:JS ;}ql Ol S;}l:JU 61 S! P;;lU!lUlUO:J S! luql puuIJo UO!ldp:Js;}p ;}ql P;;llulS l;;lWWll)l'lW 'lU;}lUdoPA;}P ;}qlJO llud S!ql U! Al!SU;}P ;}SU;}l:JU! 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P;;l){SU UOsuqO[ UUUll!Uq;) 'p;;ldsu BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS EAGLE, COLORADO RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869 if it is divided differently it is not of interest to them, This is creating the kind of environment they are trying to create, The rec district is interested in the golf course, The shift being proposed is not anything they feel would be viable and that is why it was rejected by the Planning Commission, They will create pocket parks and tot lots. Chairman Johnson suggest they move to adjourn so they can review the conditions in a sensible fashion and table to next week to review this. Commissioner Gates moved to close public comment. Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion, The vote was declared unanimous. Mr. Kummer asked them to vote one way or another tonight. Commissioner Phillips stated she feels that continuing would be in the best interest of all as it should not take more than a couple of hours. Mr. Hartmann suggested next Tuesday, They took a ten minute break to figure out timing, Commissioner Phillips moved to continue the hearing to Tuesday, March 24 at 10:00 a.m, Commissioner Gates seconded the motion. The vote was declared unanimous. There being no further business to be brought before the Board the meeting was adjourned until March 19, 1998, Attest: Clerk to the Boa ~~ hairman 11