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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 11/14/95
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
PUBLIC HEARING
NOVEMBER 14, 1995
Present: James Johnson, Jr.
George "Bud" Gates
Johnnette Phillips
Sara J. Fisher
Chairman
Corrmissioner
Corrmissioner
Clerk to the Board
This being a scheduled Public Hearing the following items were presented
to the Board of County Commissioners for their consideration:
Plat & Resolution Signing
PD-100-95-AF1, Beaver Creek Subdivision, Amended Final Plat. Staff is
recorrmending a tabling while they await further information.
Jim Fritze, County Attorney, stated there was a concern with access but
they have come to agreement and will change the current plat note to reflect
the discussion today. He believes all is worked out and it is a matter of
creating the documents.
Tom Ragonetti, attorney for Vail Associates, stated the issue was
continuous access to residents in surrounding condominiums and their
continued access to their property. Vail Associates requests the Board give
their approval pending the successful rewrite of the document.
Jim Fritze concurred with the suggestion.
Commissioner Gates moved to approve file number PD-100-95-AF1, Beaver
Creek Subdivision.
Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion.
In discussion, Kevin Lindahl, representing Tom and patricia Brist,
owners of a unit at the Inn at Beaver Creek, asked their objection be voiced
because of the impact it will have on their views and their property. Mr.
Lindahl stated one of the findings the Board must observe is the change to
the existing facilities is not effected. Mr. Lindahl believes this
modification changes the original plan.
Ms. Eastley stated the proposal changes the configuration of the lot and
increases the lot size by 92.5~. The adjacent property owners have written
numerous letters of co~laint.
Commissioner Philllps asked about the location.
Ms. Eastley explained the location.
Kevin Lindahl showed the Board the location on the map.
Mr. Ragonnetti asked Gerry Arnold to show the changes.
Gerry Arnold, Vail Associates, suggested the views of Village Hall will
be impacted, however, the views of the mountain will be preserved. Ms.
Arnold does not believe the majority of the views will be effected.
Mr. Ragonnetti suggested the change will not substantially change the
views. The building has always been planned for that location.
Chairman Johnson asked about the number of complaints.
Ms. Eastley stated numerous phone calls have been received and several
of those vehemently opposed to this.
Mr. Lindahl indicated another concern with the change of the lot line as
it is not assured the building will be as shown on the map. Mr. Lindahl
stated, with all due respect to Mr. Ragonnetti, his client does believe it
will effect the views.
Mr. Fritze clarified his discussion with Mr. Ragonetti earlier today and
related this was not the issue discussed.
Mr. Ragonnetti asked to show a map they brought showing in fact the
applicant's view is not disturbed. The fact there has not been a building
there is incidental.
Ms. Arnold showed the location of Mr. Lindahl's client's unit. Ms.
Arnold stated they will indeed build the building in the location as is.
They intend to build it that way and will gratefully sign something to that
effect.
1
Corrmissioner Gates asked Mr. Lindahl if he was satisfied.
Mr. Lindahl stated partially so, but there will still be impact to the
view.
Corrmissioner Phillips asked if lot 14 was vacant?
Ms. Eastley responded it is zoned resource corrmercial and the plat note
indicates open space.
Mr. Ragonnetti again stated it will effect the views but that has always
been the plan. The change, Mr. Ragonnetti stated has little to do with the
views.
Ms. Eastley stated the increase of the lot size is indeed a concern to
the opponents.
Mr. Lindahl asked if the change to lot 12 will cause and encroachment on
the open space.
Ms. Eastley responded they are deducting space from the open space
easement to increase the lot size.
Mr. Ragonnetti stated the easements have been traded for other locations
and the Beaver Creek Planning and Zoning is in full support.
Mr. Fritze stated in voting, 22.19.108 establishes the criteria for
approval.
Corrmissioner Gates believes his motion does indicate they are in
compliance.
corrmissioner Phillips stated the second concurs. The vote was declared
unanimous.
Mr. Lindahl asked the two maps he produced remain part of the record.
Mr. Fritze asked for the same from Vail Associates.
ZS-362-95, Eagle Wings Property
Paul Clarkson presented file number ZS-362-95, Eagle Wings Property,
Cooley Mesa. He stated this was a request for a contractors storage and auto
salvage yard. This was heard in May by the Planning corrmission and tabled
and heard again on November 1, 1995. The applicant currently has a permitted
salvage yard. Mr. Clarkson stated staff has no objections to the tabling.
Chalrman Johnson stated the Board will take a fifteen minute break until
all parties are together.
Greg Stutz, attorney for the Ewings asked for a 60 day tabling. The
issue is a matter of legal access about some property owned by Holy Cross.
The other issues can be resolved before they come back. Mr. Stutz stated
this is a prime area.
Karen Karthy, adjacent land owner, stated dust control is one of their
primary issues. There have been many problems with the road. There are
health issues for themselves and the livestock. The amount of dust is
tremendous. Another issue is where they cleared a two acre site and there
are now thistles. The berm protects them but not the neighbors. She
indicated there are water issues, trespassing issues, fence destruction, and
a plugged water line which was resolved. The dust issue is a real concern
come spring time and she'd like it resolved.
Chairman Johnson stated the dust control must be taken care of and the
State Statute dealing with weed control must be adhered to.
Mr. Fritze was advised by staff a violation notice was given to the land
owner and the conduction of use is not permitted.
Corrmissioner Phillips moved to table file number ZS-362-95, Eagle Wings
Property, Cooley Mesa for sixty days to January, 1996.
Commissioner Gates seconded the motion. The vote was declared
unanimous.
ZS-376-95, Vail Daily Business Center
Paul Clarkson, Planner, presented file number ZS-376-95, vail Daily
Business Center. He stated this was a request to consider dwelling units ln
a Corrmercial General Zone District. The applicant is Bob Brown. This is
across the street from Paddy's and Micheles. The building will contain
commercial space on the lower level, office space for the vail Daily on the
second floor and seven dwelling units on the top floor. The only issue staff
has is the concern for local employee housing. The possibility for the units
to be subdivided. Staff is recorrmending conditions be placed as provided by
the Eagle County Land Use Regulations.
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
Chairman Johnson asked if the decision today was only for the housing.
Mr. Clarkson responded yes.
Chairman Johnson stated he understands the intent of the condition but
the wording is confusing.
Bob Brown stated there must be at least one Eagle County Employee in
each unit. Mr. Brown stated he would not like to look at a deed restriction
unless necessary. The land use regs do require a special use permit for this
proposal and that is reflected in the lansuage of the special use.
Chairman Johnson stated the restrictlon itself is a deed restriction.
He believes they would not approve just any residential units there. This lS
attempting to assist our housing. Perhaps the one fact that at least one
individual on the lease being an Eagle County Employee.
Mr. Brown asked about part/time service employees and how this is
administered and what are the requirements he has to live up to.
Chairman Johnson stated the enforcement issue should not be difficult.
If a complaint is made to the County they are doing short term rentals or
selling units, then there will be a concern.
Commissioner Phillips moved to approve file number ZS-376-95, Vail Daily
Business Center with the change as read and incorporating staffs findings and
other conditions.
Commissioner Gates seconded the motion.
In discussion, Jim Fritze stated that occupant is the appropriate
language.
Chairman Johnson called for the question on the motion. The vote was
declared unanimous.
PD-337-95-S2, Knudson Ranch
sid Fox, Planning Manager, presented file number PD-337-95-S2, Knudson
Ranch. He stated this was a request for Sketch Plan for twenty-six (26)
dwelling units on 10.54 acres. The site is located immediately east of
Arrowhead and south of highway six. The Planning Commission did recommend
approval of the current plan. The 1983 sketch plan was approved for 15
dwelling units but that sketch plan has expired.
Rick Plyman, Peter Jamar and Associates introduced Summit Habitats. He
indicated they originally submitted a plan for thirty three units. That was
denied and they started over. They resubmitted an application for 29 units
and while worklng with staff, they came to the 26 number and supports staffs
recorrmendation. They are happy with the current plan and the changes, he
believes are very good.
Mr. Plyman stated there are two pieces of property. One is, the original
homestead for the Dodo Ranch which is about ten acres. There is a smaller
piece, 100 x 100 that sits above the driveway, which was the telephone switch
station sold to them by the telephone company. The DeMuths own that property
and have a house on it. The old ranch house is still in residential use and
has been leased. The utilities currently go past the site but only with
telephone and electricity. The water is from a spring. Both buildings are
on septic systems. Mr. Plyman further discussed the history and the current
use.
They have taken a real team approach to this property and the proposed
development. They intend to use the Arrowhead Design Review Board for the
requirements and approval of the property.
They have set some strong design plans and intend to make the existing
"beat up" area into the landscaped lower five acres. Planning area B will be
set up with the same wildlife and use restrictions as Bachelor Gulch. The
only uses will be for a trail through the property tying it to Arrowhead.
They have consolidated the driveways and it will be improved. The units
up on the bench will help disguise the abrupt transition. They will
revegitate and landscape the cut and the scare. 83~ of the site is open
space. Reducing from 33 to 26 was a 20~ reduction in density. They were
able to keep the same price point for the units. There are no environmental
issues and all contacted are positive with the five acres of open space.
They are very positive about the site and the location of the project and
have all the surrounding property owners support.
3
Chairman Johnson asked about the guest parking spots and the fact there
were 15 offered in the first proposal.
Mr. Plyman stated there are now ten. Each unit will have a two car
garage and additional parking behind the garage.
Chairman Johnson asked about the Arrowhead DRB reviewing the changes and
asked if they will have to go before them in the future.
Mr. Plyman responded yes they would.
Cornrrassioner Phillips asked about the wildlife mitigation plan.
Mr. Fox stated the sketch plan just requires details will be later
defined.
Mr. Plyman stated the two issues Bill Andree had was grazing and
domestic livestock and a restricting or fencing cornrratment for dogs.
Cornrrassioner Gates asked about the open space on this project and how it
will be seen for tax pUrPQses.
Mr. Pl~ stated it would be deeded as a corrmon element.
Mr. Frltze stated that would be the way to take care of it if that is
what the Board wants to see.
Chairman Johnson stated his only suggestion for desisr: improvement is to
put in foot paths along the north western portion to provlde for future
access to public transportation.
Mr. Pl~ stated there is a spring that they would like to use as well
for irrigatlon in the future.
Sid Fox stated they are recommending approval with five conditions. Mr.
Fox stated they are not proposing an economically equal project to Arrowhead
and this should simply set design standards.
corrmissioner Gates moved to approve file number PD-337-95-S2, Knudson
Ranch incorPQrating staffs conditions and findings.
Commissioner Phillips seconded the motion. The vote was declared
unanimous.
G-81-95, Road vacation
Jim Fritze stated staff and the attorney's office are going to be
requesting a tabling for this matter. Staff does not believe the loose ends
are tied up or the kinks worked out.
George Roussos, County Engineer, presented file number G-81-95, Road
Vacation. He stated this was a request to consider a petition for vacation
of certain roadways , Knapp Road No. 1 (known as Casteel Lane, and Knapp Road
No. 2 (known as West Lake Creek Drive). The Petitioners have requested the
roadway be vacated on the basis the roadway is located entirely on the
Petitioners' property in Eagle County.
Mr. Roussos stated they have received some objections to the vacation by
adjoining property owners though one neishbor is in support. He discussed
concerns brought up at the Planning COITmlssion meeting.
Mr. Mitchell, the neighbor to the south wrote a letter which Mr.
Roussos introduced into the record and to the Board. Mr. Mitchel's letter
shows his concern with the required access that may be imposed. He does not
want to have to accept their movement of the road. When the letter was
reviewed by the Eagle County Land Use corrmittee, they recommended a
conditional approval for a recreational easement.
Staff has two concerns and one is with the sign at the entrance to the
property. The attorney's office has received a copy of the proposed easement
and neither they or the engineering office have had the chance to review the
proposal.
Kevin Lindahl, representing Bud and Betsy Knapp, introduced them and Jim
Hyatt, Vice President of Yeehaa, an international landscapins firm. He
stated the Knapp property is located on west Lake Creek sittlng up at the end
of the valley and he showed it on the map.
Mr. Hyatt reviewed the history of the tract of land. It was accessible
for farmins and ranching. Mr. Pilgrim in 1900 wrote in his journal about the
inaccessibllity of the property. There were three roadways built in the
1970's. In 1993, the Knapps bought the property owning 260 acres. The
Knapp's are trying hard to restore this area to is original state. They are
environmentally sensitive to the land and the planning of such. They intend
to leave the majority of the land for open space. They are building four
guest cabins and a caretakers home. The property is bordered to the south by
the Mitchel property of 160 acres. The Vail Plus Fifteen Partnership owns
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
125 acres. On the north side is the Mall property and east of that the Tally
property of 58 acres. On the east side it is owned by Eagle Meadows. Above
that is White River National Forest. Mr. Hyatt showed the property on
slides. He showed the intersection of Castillo Lane and where they would
like to vacate and cover some of the cut and damage of the road. The roads
are not maintained by the County. They have a permit to regrade HolyCross
Drive which is in the spirit of the other improvements they are trying to
make. He then showed the approach to West Lake Creek Drive. Both roads are
surrounded by Knapp property. He believes it only makes sense to vacate the
roads. Another point is these roads do not provide access to anyone else.
They were created for high density development but they do not intend to
build. He commends the Knapp's for the efforts they are making and have made
to refurbish the land. The Knapp's are allowing use of their property for
foot and ski traffic and will continue to do so. There is no need for
vehicle access to those roads and it would be a detriment.
Mr. Hyatt introduced the Knapps and Mrs. Knapp came forward. Mrs. Knapp
indicated she and her husband have lived here for sixteen years and they have
a great sensitivity for the land. There intention is to enhance it for
generations to come. Mr. Knapp stated their desire is to protect the lands
and to manage the vehicle traffic on those roads to prevent road accidents.
Mr. Knapp added in the two locations at the cul-de-sacs, they do plan to
build two studios. They have welcomed people to their property and have only
eliminated overnight campers because of fires.
Mr. Lindahl submitted letters from neighbors and landowners in support
of the Knapp's proposal and thanking them for the efforts they have made to
keeping the area accessible to foot traffic. Mr. Lindahl stated his
apologies that Mr. Roussos had not seen the easement. Mr. Lindahl stated it
was given to the Attorney's Office two weeks ago and he was not aware Mr.
Roussos had not seen it.
Mr. Lindahl further discussed the easements.
James Gilbert, area resident, indicated they are one of few owners who
live in the area year round. He stated it is a very rural area and one of
the problems they have is with vehicle traffic. The recreational users are a
pain and they don't show respect for the property. To keep the area for
recreation they have to control the road. Mr. Gilbert stated he lets people
cross his property as the Knapp's do. Letting the public drive on roads that
are not publicly maintained puts the burden on them. Asain, they are happy
to let people use the roads but thinks they should elimlnate the vehicles.
Peter Halstad, area resident, stated he and his wife abut the area. He
stated they have put covenants on their 105 acres restricting additional
houses from being built. Mr. Halstad stated they pick up for everyone else
up there. They bought a road grater to maintain the roads. They love to use
the area for walks. There is abuse of the area by people able to access by
vehicle. They party up there at the end of cul-de-sacs leaving trash and
damaging the roads.
Sandy Hinman, resident of the valley for nearly thirty years, showed his
place on the map and where he uses the Knapp's I?roperty for skiing and
biking. He applauded the Knapp's on their keeplng the property open to the
public for recreational use. They were thrilled when the Knapps bought the
whole thing. They are in full sUPI?ort of anything the Knapp's plan to do.
Guy Parker, County resident Slnce 1962, works as the caretaker for the
Knapps for the past four years. In his time there he sees the primary use of
the roads for recreation. There is a great deal of support for the Knapp's
in this endeavor. He has not come across anyone who has been upset with
them for any of what they have or are doing up there.
Rick Johnson, area resident, referred to the discussion provided today.
Mr. Johnson referred to the Tally'S property and the Knapp's property on his
New York Mountain Project map. He stated they participated in the two
hearings earlier. Mr. Johnson stated he wrote a legal policy arsument on
behalf of the Tally's. The Tallys wrote a letter to the Corrmissloners as
well. They appeared at the continued hearing on September the 20th.
He believes the requested road vacation will effect the Tally's property
because the end of the public road will now be on the Tallys property. This
will create an impact on the Tallys. The subject roads were dedicated as
5
public roads and the reliance was there when the Tallys purchased the
property. The Tally's and their guests have used the roadways for
recreatlon. They are concerned about handicapped accessibillty as well as
access to bikers. The County does not maintain the roads. The cul-de-sacs
elimination will cause concern for emergency service.
Mr. Johnson believes this should not be done in a I?iecemeal fashion. He
referred to the Eagle County Land Use Regulations, sectlon 2.22 (3) and
stated the applicants for any road or easement vacation shall present a
petition requesting such vacation to the Department of Community Development,
signed by the owners of all abutting property whose means of legal ingress
and egress thereto would be affected by such vacation. The attorney's office
interpreted this to state it must be the sole ingress and egress. Mr.
Johnson referred to case law and the results of a pitkin County case.
Mr. Johnson stressed ingress and egress does not define access to any
specific area.
Mr. Johnson discussed easements and the fact the County will loose title
to the road once it is vacated. He suggests the Knapp's are not necessarily
as wonderful as they and their friends may think. He showed two photographs
for review.
Mr. Johnson stated they are introducing a more responsible land use and
planning for the area. There is nothing in this vacation for the public.
The public looses access and the use of their public property. He referred
. to Resolution 90-93 and the petition used to vacate property earlier. Mr.
Johnson stated he advised Jim Fritze of their concerns in September and has
not received a response. The Mitchel's property, which will also be
affected, are in opposition. They have written two letters and question who
will enforce the public rights. They believe the gate located on Holy Cross
drive is illesal. They don't understand the purpose of the easement. The
Mitchel's belleve the road vacations, if approved, will enable the Knapp's to
request further vacation. Mr. Johnson stated neither the Knapp's or their
attorneys have contacted the Mitchel's to work out a mutually satisfactory
arrangement.
They believe this is a piecemeal effort to discourage public use in the
area. He sees no reason for the County to vacate these roads.
Chairman Johnson asked about the legal ingress and egress effects and
how it effects the Tallys.
Mr. Johnson responded it does not need to have an ultimate destination.
It means to take you off your property or to your proI?erty. He again
referred to pitkin County and the lack of the limitatlon as stated in that
County.
Corrmissioner Gates asked about the County's interpretation.
Bob Loeffler stated Mr. Johnson's interpretation of the re~lation is
wrong and unsupported. They do not agree the petition is invalld.
Mr. Loeffler stated the easement has not been thoroughly reviewed by
either the Engineer or the Attorney's Office. The adoption of this vacation
will have to be delayed as the language is unacceptable as is.
Chairman Johnson suggested the Board could approve the easement with the
condition the language be worked out before a Resolution is signed.
Mr. Loeffler stated if the Board is inclined to accept the easement they
instruct County Engineer to write an easement that is appropriate.
Mr. Loeffler asked the KnaPI?'s if the easement they have volunteered is
the same dimensions of the existlng road bed.
Craig Kerr, co-counsel with Kevin Lindahl, stated they intend to request
a 20 foot easement but will do whatever the County suggests.
commissioner Phillips questioned the blocking off the Mitchel's property
and asked them to again point out the roads.
Commissioner Gates moved to table file number G-81-95, Road Vacation for
further clarification of the easement.
Corrmissioner Phillips seconded the motion. The vote was declared
unanimous.
PD-138-95-S1, Adams Rib Golf Course
Keith Montag, Director of Community Development, presented file number
PD-138-95-S1, Adams Rib Golf Course. He stated this hearing was a
continuation of the hearing for public input and is one of a series. The
focus tonight is regarding the water and the status of federal permits. Mr.
6
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
Montag pointed out Staff corrments in the Board's packet which contained any
newly received correspondence. He also included a letter from White Water
Engineers and related the memo describes the status as they see the water
situation. The water service will be the initial focus.
The water service is proposed to be acquired form the Town of Eagle or
through the creation of a separate water district. Wastewater treatment will
be provided by a proposed advanced wastewater treatment plant located on the
Salt Creek parcel.
A specific employee housing plan was not inco~orated within the
submittal. However, the application states the resldent population livins at
the Golf Course is a significant portion of the resident employee populatlon
that will be demanded by the development of the resort.
Mr. Montag stated the State is requiring the augmentation plan must be
approved before they are going to review detailed water information before
the plan is submitted.
The memo from White Water Engineers sumnarized the issues. The minimum
stream flow versus the historic stream flow. The applicant indicates it is
feasible for Adam's Rib to develop an independent water plan. The location
has not be confirmed. One of the things that will be required is a strong
moni toring prosram. That has been an ongoing concern of staff. They say
vested water rlghts will not be an issue.
Corrmenting further on water, Mr. Montag stated there has been a water
quality plan. The goals need to be satisfied both during or after the
project. Mr. Montag stated this is one of the better plans the county has
reviewed but there are a number of techniques that must be implemented.
The Town of Eagle is currently preparing a water plan to include the
valley. The town would like to see this master plan completed prior to the
county moving forward on this project.
The augmentation plan will only accommodate 21~ of the currently
proposed residential units. He believes the applicant has not done a
thorough job. He believes they have double counted the water rights. He
takes issue with the water right report and inconsistencies. Under water
quality, Mr. Roby questions the type of sampling of the water quality. He
says he casts doubt on Adam's Rib
Mr. Montag discussed a letter from Mary Hammond, s specialist who
monitors water law relating to discrepancies in the au~entation plan. She
raised concern about the availability of civil water rlghts. She discussed
the double counting. She questions return flows and minimum streamflow.
Willie Powell, Town Manager of Eagle, introduced the Town's water
attorney. Mr. Powell stated it is the Board of Trustees desire the Water
Plan be approved prior to any decision being made on this project. They
believe it inappropriate to approve a water plan that will duplicate the
efforts and go asainst all the master plan rules and regulations.
Sherry CaIOla, the Town's Water Attorney, stated the town has it's water
plan located at a site adjacent to Adam's Rib. She explained the
restrictions the town has on flow requirements. The town has a 1983
agreement with Adam's Rib for the golf course and some area in town. Now,
that agreement is outdated and will not work for anyone. They have worked
with Adam's Rib to develop a conceptual plan for the Town to I?rovide water to
the Golf Course. They have not been able to integrate that wlth Adamn's
Rib's other needs. The town feels this must be looked at as a whole and not
piecemeal. The town is concerned with competing needs.
She understands Adam's Rib will submit an augmentation plan and the Town
will oppose it. Their main concern is a competing water system which is
crucial to this base.
Corrmissioner Gates asked Mr. Powell if the Eagle Master Plan does not
mention Adam's Rib.
Mr. Powell stated it is true, the consensus of the public and the
advisory committee is seeing the future of the area to be without Adman's Rib
at this point in time. That is why they are concerned with sisning a water
agreement with them. They are not confident this plan is conslstent with
water the community wants or any decision they may make.
Fred Kummer, president of Adam's Area and Adam's Rib, stated his three
main concerns are water, right-of-way, and why he can't get what he wants.
7
He stated he met with Mr. Powell today and he does not believe it is legal
for the Town to impose the tap charges. If they could meet with the town
they would make concessions to the town. Secondly, regarding water, they
are unable to be held hostage to the things still to come. They have asked
for a modification of the golf course plan going from 540 to 1687, and they
have asked for some additional units. The second issue is that of right of
way. They are working with Eagle Ranch and they should be able to come to
terms with them as well as with the second party and perhaps the third. He
thinks they should be able to come to agreement with all parties. The third
issue, is an understanding that possibly 1055 is more than they think
aI?propriate, they should create a dialogue, work sessions, where there are
dlscussions with the county to find those things that are most appropriate to
all parties and particularly to the county.
Richard Ca~lse gave hlS resume for the record stating he has seen
repeatedly how dlspute resolution can work. Mr. Carylse stated Mr. Kummer
has agreed to talk about a reduction in units. They believe it is going to
be easier to address the master plan issues by gettlng going on a meaningful
dialogue.
Mr. Carylse talked about the master plan process. A I?lan is an advisory
document, a guide to development, a guide to decisions. H1S message is, the
Board and only the Board can interpret the master plan and only they can
apply it to specific parcels. He has advised his client the reality is they
Omust have a dialogue with the Board of their interpretations as to what is
the master plan. There are approaches they can take to resolve the issues
with the Board. They would like an informal discussion to hear their
concerns.
Jim Fritze, County Attorney, questioned the dispute with the Board's
statement. The Board has not come to any position on this file where there
is a dispute with the Board and the appllcant.
Mr. Carylse stated there is a perceived fact there is a current dispute
in this valley about the density.
Terrill Knight, Knight Planning, pointed out they are moving forward
with the augmentation plan and they are clearly ahead of where they should
be. He stated they clearly understand water law and their plan takes those
into account. Concerning monitoring of water, it is a function of the state.
They must ensure compliance. They have included implementing methods to
assure water compliance. Mr. Knight stated their work with the Town has been
very successful and they are close to coming to terms with technical
concerns. They are following the system and reiterated they are well ahead
in the water planning and working with the town.
Charlie Wick, project manager, discussed the augmentation plan and the
area it covers. It is about a 18 - 24 month process to complete the plan.
The plan is being written with the intention of joining the Town of Eagle
whenever possible. They have collected water quality data and have a 40 year
history of the stream. Mr. Wick stated the water quality issues will be
addressed by Jonathan Jones of Write Water Ensineers. Boots Ferguson from
Holland and Hart is a primary water attorney ln the state.
John Jones, asked the Board to refer to Tab 2 of the handout and open to
item #1. This corrmitment is described in the 1989/90 and 1994 ARRA Water
Quality Mitigation Plans. The 1989/90 Plan was given Draft 401 Certification
by the CWQCD in 1989. The 1994 Plan is now being reviewed by the CWQCD. It
is more comprehensive and makes stronger corrmitments than the 1989/90 Plan.
There have been over 20 independent contributors and reviewers of the 1994
Plan. He continued to review the handout.
Boots Ferguson, Water Attorney from Holland and Hart. For the last
twenty years Adam's Rib has been focusing on water resource they have to
provide for a develoI?ment such as this. He stated Adam's Rib has the rights,
has the agreements wlth the town and can provide for this development within
the prescribed guidelines.
Mr. Ferguson discussed the timing. He stated they have an existing
agreement with the town to service 200 units. This was executed in 1983.
They have a legal source of supply which is in place and the tap fees have
been paid. Adam's Rib, he stated, has never suggested the reduction of the
minimum stream flows. The remaining water needs for the development are in
negotiation still. They have basically reached an agreement with respect to
the legal issues and the engineering issues. Negotiations with the town have
provided them a conservative check. The initial negotiations where done with
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
the town thinking they would be the applicant and therefore they worked
closely with the Engineers. The preservation of the streamflow in Brush
Creek has been their primary concern. If agreement is reached with the Town
the plan will be conveyed to the Town.
Based upon the proposed agreement with the Town, they have developed a
plan that uses the senior water rights to maintain the successful development
of the Town.
The question now is how do they enhance the streamflow as it moves
through the proj ect . At the down stream point of the proj ect, make sure the
historic regiment of the stream remains the same.
Commissioner Gates asked if in dry years there is access to any water
through some of the reservoirs.
Mr. Ferguson stated they are looking at Wooford Water as well as Green
Mountain and Rudi.
Mr. Fritze asked about the charts supplied and questioned why August was
selected.
Mr. Ferguson stated August was selected because in a dry year the flows
are low enough that in August, the senior irrigators can still take needed
water. They wanted to analyze if their water rights would be sufficient. He
stated they also looked at February'S fisures. Mr. Ferguson related their
responsibility is to maintain the historlc strearnflows and the low flows are
a result of the senior water rights. Eagle Ranch takes out below them and
they are the senior holder. Mr. Ferguson explained the historic regiment of
the water rights.
Ms. Caloia stated Adam's Rib will have to replace all the water they
divert at or above where it is diverted. She stated it takes a tremendous
amount of monitoring. The Town would have to make sure the monitoring of
their system occurs and will be at the cost to the Town. She takes issue to
Mr. Fergusons' implication they and the town are working hand in hand.
Mr. Ferguson stated if they do their own system they will not
compromise.
Mr. Kummer stated they recognize the concerns of the Town and they have
shared an understanding of where the water should come from. Mr. Kummer
stated nothing in the world will stop them from reaching an agreement with
the Town. He sees this as having been a delay tactic.
John Bort, project manager for the Forest Service, dealing with Adam's
Rib, stated his comments will take about 10 - 15 minutes. Specifically they
want to cover the status of the federal I?ermits. Adam's Rib only has one
permit with the Forest Service that was lssued in 1982 and it is still in
effect. There is an application with Corps of Engineers.
They have been analyzing the components for the last twenty years.
There has been a lot of reference to the 1982 Forest Service Environmental
Analysis process when they completed the first round. At that time a
decision was rendered that said Adam's Mountain was suitable for skiins.
They were given encouragement to further the process. A number of addl tional
conditions were imposed at that time. In 1987 they kicked of the application
with the Corps. In 1989 there was another proposal. In 1993, there were
some due dates imposed.
Mr. Bort continued to talk about the permitting process. In the special
use permit there is a clause of December 31, 1995 deadline for occupancy.
Adam's Rib has asked the permit deadline be extended based on due diligence.
They are reviewing that now. In 1989 the permit was extended and they are
reviewing it further.
Mr. Bort moved forward to discuss the status of the environmental impact
being studied by them now. Under this round of environmental analysis they
may be looking at requiring a new application.
He stated they have identified many key issues to be analyzed and they
are not just the environmental issues. They are looking at transportation
and social issues as well.
They have developed a number of alternatives. He referred to his map
and the handout the corrmissioners have. The map shows a project area as it
relates to the Brush Creek Valley and the ski mountain. He showed the land
exchanse to take place. Rib modification is another concern. The power
transmlssion line has three alignments they are considering. The Corps is
9
checking the wet lands.
Mr. Bort discussed the no action scenario on private lands. Most of
Adman's Rib is 35 acre zoning. They analyzed the environmental effects as it
relates to private lands at the lowest level of possible develoI?ment.
Mr. Bort referred to the schedule for completion and they lntend to
provide a quality document that will give long term analytical data to do so.
corrmissioner Gates indicated they seem to be reviewlng the same
information again and again.
Mr. Bort said they must bring all this information up to today's
knowledge of the effects.
Charlie Wick explained some of the various studies they have had to do
because of national concerns and are thus analyzed in relatlonship to the
development. These analysis ensure the environmentally sensitive issues be
addressed.
Mr. Kummer's back and he still feels this is a good proj ect . The
approval they received in 1982 anticipated change. They started with almost
90 acres of effected wetlands. They have worked with the Corps and the
Forest Service. Conceptually, he believes the project is the same as it was,
but its gone through an evolution. The same way they have reached resolution
is hopefully the way they can reach it here.
Norman Nunn, area resident, discussed the gopher versus cattle concept.
Mr. Nunn read his letter into the record and discussed the subsidizing of
cattle ranches. He discussed the 35 acre concerns. Mr. Nunn mentioned the
wildlife concerns and the fishing that will be better managed.
Rick Juedemann, area resident, stated he is living in a trailer that has
been paid for three or four times over. He discussed the buildout in vail
and where they as construction people will have to So. The old family farms
will be subdivided into 35 acres parcels. He questlons the urban sprawl. As
far as the development, the Board can control this.
Roy Mosher, a resident of the Valley for many years, stated he grew up
here and he'd like to see the valley stay green. He read from a letter and
discussed the concern with the 35 acre parcels. He mentioned the noxious
weeds that will ensue.
Dick Turgeon, area resident, stated he has a big credibility gap with
the planning corrmission and the staff. He reflected on the master plan of
the 1970's asked what has happened to it. Mr. Turgeon believes the staff is
tryin~ to blackmail Kummer to tie into the Eagle Water and Sanitation
Distrlct. He believes this is wrong. Mr. Turgeon reminded the Board he was
involved in the hiring of Jim Fritze and Keith Montag. He questioned Mr.
Montag's abilities.
Mike Bradley, resident of the Brush Creek Valley, suggested many things
have been said tonight about water and land. He can't really be concerned
with Mr. Kummer's land rights when his are not taken into consideration. He
is dependent upon the Board to ensure his rights. They will be paying the
price of development as they loose the water on the their property. He would
like to see the rights of the small land owner taken into consideration.
Henry Vest, a valley resident for twelve years, on the town of Avon
planning corrmission for four and a half years stated he thinks from reading
the news clips over the last couple of years, his general opinion is in favor
of the Adman's Rib recreational area. In staff notes he sees no reason why
the Board would not vote for the proposal.
Mary Hanmend, Attorney specializing in water law, referred to a letter
she wrote to the Board. She believes it appropriate that some of her
concerns have been addressed. She still has concerns there is not an
appropriate water supply worked out for this project. Mr. Ferguson indicated
the water contract is a done deal but the Town disagrees. After eighteen
months of negotiations and still no contract it is worrisome. She believes
there to be some serious institutional problems. She referred to Mr.
Ferguson's argument regarding the 12 DFS and the suggestion to reduce it.
The engineering issues may be a concern and does make them all the more
important. She is concerned the water supply that Adam's Rib claims is very
high. She explained the reductions of water supply. The Town has indicated
no permit should be issued for Adam's Rib until they provide an augmentation
plan.
Jim Edwards, a Vail resident, questioned if we can handle this kind of
development. The load on the infrastructure needs to be assessed.
Leonard Sinclair, area resident, confessed he has never caught a fish
10
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
EAGLE, COLORADO
RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
FORM 50 HOECKEL'S 387869
out of east Brush Creek because there are no fish there. He discussed the
water up that area and the high quality of water that is present. His
corrment regarding the federal permits is that they take too damn long. He
started telling war stories from 1955. His parents came here and without
invitations. This is an area that provides and opportunity that people
desire.
Tom Brooks, lives in Gypsum Colorado, stated he knows one thing for sure
and that is we are missing an opportunity here. Spending money on decisions
that are never made. We study studies. Everybody is afraid to make
decisions. He hopes that isn't the case here. He loves nature. He
suggested he is going to start charging by the square inch for hair cuts and
study each section.
Nancy Hill, resident of Eagle, read from a letter she sent to the
newspaper not too long ago. She discussed the second homes and the empty
city label that Vail now has. She referred to an article in the Denver
paper.
Ms. Hill referred to the Commissioner's stated goal of finding more
housing in Eagle County and this goes against those plans.
Sally Metcalf read a letter from Rosie Sherwood. She emphasized her
concerns with the quality and quantity of water. Mrs. Sherwood discussed the
wheather of 1977 and the drought and Adam's Rib ethics in handling their
water that year. She questions how the integrity of the water will be
preserved.
Sally then discussed a meeting she had with people in a similar
developing area and hopes that Board will prevent then from facing the same
problems.
Darren Tuhulki, a painting contractor from Minturn moved here for
opportunity. He supports Adams Rib, he's seen their plan, he's been up Brush
Creek, he thinks the valley is beautiful. The development is going to
happen regardless. He is concerned about his friends not having a self
sustaining future in the area as construction dries up. He addressed the
riparian zones along Brush Creek if the 35 acre parcels are allowed. As far
as the ski area, he doesn't think it's a bad idea.
Luck Danielson, attorney for the concerned citizens, believes this
project is not going anywhere. He has been watching this for twenty years.
He wishes Mr. Kummer would have stuck around because he thinks what they do
need is dialogue.
Mr. Danielson reflected the history of the augmentation plan which was
due in 1989. They needed a wet land permit and missed the deadline. He
believes the problem is the development simply does not work. The federal
government did make a decision in 1989 as their permit was denied. In 1982
there was water supply that was going to come form Vassar meadow, then they
talked surface diversion. Mr. Danielson's point is this project is too big,
too much. Why are we here toni~ht? Because the developer is asking for
more. Mr. Danielson really belleves this will all come to an end. The
infrastructure costs are not realistic. He hopes the Board's sense of
fairness includes the people in the dialogue.
Max Quinon, a neighbor of Adam's Rib, stated he has concerns with the
water quantity comments that have been made tonight. He has seen the water
level get low. In August of 1994, the stream went dry. This upsets him. He
doesn't understand why they say there is plenty of water. Behind his house,
in a dry year, there should be 8 1/2 cubic feet per second when there is none
flowing. He referred to the paper water where the decree may have nothing to
do with what is being used.
Keith Montag stated the only other item is the agenda for the next
hearing. They do have time for December 12, 1995 to hear concluding comments
form the applicant and the staff. There will be an opportunity for questions
form the Board and Board deliberation.
Mr. Knight stated the bulk of their presentation will the financial
issues of the resort.
Chairman Johnson asked the rest of the Board how they would feel about
taking public comment on December 12, 1995.
Mr. Montag stated there would be a project economic presentation.
commissioner Phillips stated she doesn't mind the public comment but
11
would like it be restricted to new information.
Commissioner Gates stated people should be able to speak if they so
desire.
Mr. Knight stated they will have their water people here.
'There being no further business to be brought before the Board the
meeting was adjourned until November 20, 1995.
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